Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[johnny karate]

Right, "minimal for requirements" and "almost insufficient". In other words, barely passable and Serino wasn't exactly buying his story.

I'd agree with that.

And someone needs to remind me: Where did Serino get his medical degree?

 

[Rare Truth]

It's amazing, as always, to read about all those 311 calls to police. George sure liked to call the cops on black kids who happened to be in the neighborhood. It's almost like he had a thing about them.

Can't quite put my finger on it, though, right?

I'm going to see if I can find a text copy of that pdf and bring it here.

If not, I'll OCR it, and C&P some of the pertinent parts.

 

[12AX7]

What sort of stains were you expecting on denim, on such slippery, wet grass?

Are you serious? Wet grass will stain denim in a heartbeat. Do you have kids?

I can sorta see this being a tenable argument, that TM may have been fearful of what GZ was reaching for. But if you are considering this, then you're also considering the rest of GZ's story up to that point being true...

Not really. One can believe an element of a story without believing an entire story. In fact, some of the best lies often contain some bits of truth.

 

[Rare Truth]

I think serino believed his story, based on his comments below.

I also think serino thought he should be guilty of something for not diffusing the situation.

And recall, Serino has hired Baez as his attorney. Any guesses on why Serino thinks he needs a big name defense attorney ?


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._chief-bill-lee-federal-review-federal-agency
Two weeks ago, during an exclusive interview with the Sentinel, Lee disclosed certain details of the investigation and during that session, attended by Serino and others, Serino said his investigation turned up no reliable evidence that cast doubt on Zimmerman's account – that he had acted in self-defense.
The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event," Serino told the Sentinel March 16. "Everything I have is adding up to what he says."

Where is Chief Lee now?

Awww. He's gone. Canned. Vamooskrayed.


Where is State's Attorney Wolfinger?


Awww. He's gone too.

Tsk.

 

[Unabogie]

I think serino believed his story, based on his comments below.

I also think serino thought he should be guilty of something for not diffusing the situation.

And recall, Serino has hired Baez as his attorney. Any guesses on why Serino thinks he needs a big name defense attorney ?


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._chief-bill-lee-federal-review-federal-agency
Two weeks ago, during an exclusive interview with the Sentinel, Lee disclosed certain details of the investigation and during that session, attended by Serino and others, Serino said his investigation turned up no reliable evidence that cast doubt on Zimmerman's account – that he had acted in self-defense.
The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event," Serino told the Sentinel March 16. "Everything I have is adding up to what he says."


http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/12/2892510/more-evidence-released-in-zimmerman.html
Telling the FBI that he was concerned that people inside the police department were leaking information, Serino cited Sgt. Arthur Barnes, officers Rebecca Villalona and Trekelle Perkins “as all pressuring him to file charges against Zimmerman after the incident,” an FBI report said. “Serino did not believe he had enough evidence at the time to file charges.”

[/QUOTE]

Except for those of us who don't reflexively believe every ounce of spin that flies out of the Zimmerman's mouths, there's plenty of evidence that contradicts what he claimed, and we've been discussing it for weeks. Whatever pressures were clouding the case early on, we now have murder charges and a trial coming up. Maybe we can focus on that part now and not the original spin coming from the SPD for why they dropped the ball at first?

 

[Rare Truth]

Are you serious? Wet grass will stain denim in a heartbeat. Do you have kids?

Maybe he/she thinks it was some kind of plastic astroturf.

I mean those jeans and boots are just so Liquid Tide fresh!

Not really. One can believe an element of a story without believing an entire story. In fact, some of the best lies often contain some bits of truth.

Exactly.

 

[Mister Earl]

That picture makes me think he recently got a change of clothes. They're just too clean. It is possible he had someone bring him clothes after he got cleaned up at the station? Do they match what he was wearing in that video where they were talking to him when they pulled him out of the car when he arrived there?

/At work, can't dig too much

 

[Unabogie]

That picture makes me think he recently got a change of clothes. They're just too clean. It is possible he had someone bring him clothes after he got cleaned up at the station? Do they match what he was wearing in that video where they were talking to him when they pulled him out of the car when he arrived there?

/At work, can't dig too much

No, apparently that's what he was wearing when they brought him in. So yeah, he's missing the grass stains on the pants. He looks pretty unmolested, eh?

 

[Rare Truth]

That picture makes me think he recently got a change of clothes. They're just too clean. It is possible he had someone bring him clothes after he got cleaned up at the station? Do they match what he was wearing in that video where they were talking to him when they pulled him out of the car when he arrived there?

/At work, can't dig too much

Those are the clothes he allegedly murdered the kid in.

AFTER the pictures were snapped, he took them off, they were placed into evidence, and Shellie, and former Sanford Police deputy -Zimmerman's best buddy - went to the station and brought him a change of clothes.

They *are* exceptionally clean, aren't they?

Like he just walked out of a theater viewing of Batman, not like a man who had just been in the fight of his life, a belt down so brutal he had to kill someone.

 

[Rare Truth]

Here is just the beginning of that PDF of the NBC (I was wrong prior, I referred to them as ABC) Motion to Stay Proceedings.
[any errors are from the OCR translation]
The tabled portion below might be of interest to some.
I think the Motion to Stay will be upheld, and I think Z is going to lose his suit against them.
==========================
I. On June 10, 2013. George Zimmerman will be tried in this Court for the crime of second- degree murder, a charge that arises from the February 2012 shooting death, at Zimmerman’s hand, of Trayvon Martin. In this civil action, Zimmerman contends that defendant NBC Universal Media, LLC and three of its present and former employees defamed him when, he alleges, they broadcast excerpts from and mischaracterized the recording of his call to police the night he killed Martin in an effort to make it appear that Zimmerman is a racist.

2. While there is no legitimate basis for Zimmerman’s claims against these defendants, who fairly and accurately reported about a news event that has captivated the nation, now is simply not the tine to litigate them. Rather, the Court should properly stay runner proceedings in this case pending the conclusion of Zimmerman’s criminal trial because

(I) that trial, which is now only months away, will address related issues and focus on much of the same evidence that will be before the Court in this case;

(2) Judicial economy will be served by allowing the Court to preside over the criminal trial first;

(3) a stay will minimize the risk that ongoing proceedings in this case ‘ill interfere with the orderly prosecution of the criminal case; ongoing proceedings in this case will interfere with the orderly prosecution of the criminal case; and (4) a stay will spare witnesses from potentially duplicative discovery — all without any prejudice to Zimmerman, whose attorneys have asserted they need every moment between now and his criminal trial to prepare for it.

3. For all of these reasons, and as explained more fully in the memorandum of law that follows, a stay is warranted.
…
Zimmerman founded and served as the head of a Neighborhood Watch program in the gated! Sanford community in which he lived.

.1.1 In the seven months prior to Martin’s death, Zimmerman made multiple calls to police about young men in his neighborhood that he considered suspicious. All of them were black Id. Ex. I at I.

On August 3, 2011, for example, Zimmerman reported to police that his wife had seen a young black man earlier in the day who she suspected of “burglary or robbery” and that they both saw ‘someone that matches his description in the neighborhood right now.

Three days later, Zimmerman called police again, this time to report that “two youths” in their late teens,” who he also suspected of robberies, were in the neighborhood. These young men were also black.

Two months after that, on October 1, 2011, Zimmerman again sought police intervention

because, he told them, “we’ve had a lot of break-ins in our neighborhood recently and I’m on the neighborhood watch and there’s two suspicious characters at the gate of my neighborhood.”

2(d). This time, Zimmerman told police, I’ve never seen them before. I have no idea what they’re doing. They’re just hanging out. . . loitering.” N. Without being asked their race, Zimmerman volunteered that they were “two African American males.” And., four months later, on February 2, 2012, Zimmerman once again invoked the specter of “burglaries and vandalisms lately” when he called police to report that a black man keeps going up to a Caucasian neighbor’s house and going along the side of it.”

 

[Unabogie]

Here is just the beginning of that PDF of the NBC (I was wrong prior, I referred to them as ABC) Motion to Stay Proceedings.
[any errors are from the OCR translation]
The tabled portion below might be of interest to some.
I think the Motion to Stay will be upheld, and I think Z is going to lose his suit against them.
==========================
I. On June 10, 2013. George Zimmerman will be tried in this Court for the crime of second- degree murder, a charge that arises from the February 2012 shooting death, at Zimmerman’s hand, of Trayvon Martin. In this civil action, Zimmerman contends that defendant NBC Universal Media, LLC and three of its present and former employees defamed him when, he alleges, they broadcast excerpts from and mischaracterized the recording of his call to police the night he killed Martin in an effort to make it appear that Zimmerman is a racist.

2. While there is no legitimate basis for Zimmerman’s claims against these defendants, who fairly and accurately reported about a news event that has captivated the nation, now is simply not the tine to litigate them. Rather, the Court should properly stay runner proceedings in this case pending the conclusion of Zimmerman’s criminal trial because

(I) that trial, which is now only months away, will address related issues and focus on much of the same evidence that will be before the Court in this case;

(2) Judicial economy will be served by allowing the Court to preside over the criminal trial first;

(3) a stay will minimize the risk that ongoing proceedings in this case ‘ill interfere with the orderly prosecution of the criminal case; ongoing proceedings in this case will interfere with the orderly prosecution of the criminal case; and (4) a stay will spare witnesses from potentially duplicative discovery — all without any prejudice to Zimmerman, whose attorneys have asserted they need every moment between now and his criminal trial to prepare for it.

3. For all of these reasons, and as explained more fully in the memorandum of law that follows, a stay is warranted.
…
Zimmerman founded and served as the head of a Neighborhood Watch program in the gated! Sanford community in which he lived.

.1.1 In the seven months prior to Martin’s death, Zimmerman made multiple calls to police about young men in his neighborhood that he considered suspicious. All of them were black Id. Ex. I at I.

On August 3, 2011, for example, Zimmerman reported to police that his wife had seen a young black man earlier in the day who she suspected of “burglary or robbery” and that they both saw ‘someone that matches his description in the neighborhood right now.

Three days later, Zimmerman called police again, this time to report that “two youths” in their late teens,” who he also suspected of robberies, were in the neighborhood. These young men were also black.

Two months after that, on October 1, 2011, Zimmerman again sought police intervention

because, he told them, “we’ve had a lot of break-ins in our neighborhood recently and I’m on the neighborhood watch and there’s two suspicious characters at the gate of my neighborhood.”

2(d). This time, Zimmerman told police, I’ve never seen them before. I have no idea what they’re doing. They’re just hanging out. . . loitering.” N. Without being asked their race, Zimmerman volunteered that they were “two African American males.” And., four months later, on February 2, 2012, Zimmerman once again invoked the specter of “burglaries and vandalisms lately” when he called police to report that a black man keeps going up to a Caucasian neighbor’s house and going along the side of it.”

And you can bet your ass that if George takes the stand, the prosecutor will ask him how many times he called the cops in the year leading up to the murder. And he'll ask him what color those people were. And he'll ask him why they were only young black males. And a pattern will be established.

 

[remirol]

And you can bet your ass that if George takes the stand, the prosecutor will ask him how many times he called the cops in the year leading up to the murder. And he'll ask him what color those people were. And he'll ask him why they were only young black males. And a pattern will be established.

<pedantry> He'll actually force Zimmerman into yes/no responses because it won't give Zimmerman any way to explain anything away.

"You called the police 8* times in the last year for similar suspicions, correct?"
"I dunno"
"I have the records here that show it was 8. So, this was you, right?"
"Yes"
"OK. In all those cases, they were young black males, weren't they?"
"I dunno"
"In the records, it shows none were Caucasian. Can you confirm that with a 'yes', please?"

The reason this is even worth posting is because even such a short exchange as this illustrates just how bad it will be for his own defense to have George take the stand. I'm not a competent lawyer, but I'm familiar with the technique -- and a competent lawyer will have George looking like something just short of Charles Manson when he's done.

The defense absolutely cannot afford to have George on the stand with all this mud available for him to be dragged through; they need to keep the prosecution at bay as long as possible without doing so.

 

[Rare Truth]

Quite likely.

These are two other interesting parts of that Motion:

A stay of this case will provide some measure of insulation of the jury pool in the criminal case from what is otherwise likely to be an ongoing drumbeat of publicity surrounding the civil litigation. As noted, Zimmerman, his counsel and even his relatives have already appeared in the media and have purposefully created a substantial presence on the internet in a concerted effort to communicate to the population comprising the jury pool and beyond that he is not guilty of the charges against him and to seek the contribution of funds for his defense.
​

(Emphasis supplied.)

And then:

"Zimmerman's commencement of this defamation action coincides with his efforts both to raise additional funds for his criminal defense and to engender public sympathy for his cause. Indeed, promptly upon filing his Complaint in this case, Zimmerman established a fourth website devoted to developments in this defamation case. Id. 29.45.

Its home page asserts that "this site is necessary to counter the avalanche of negative publicity" against Zimmerman. Id.

Further, Zimmerman's original website has been retooled and is now devoted largely to this lawsuit. Id 29.46

On it, Zimmerman claims he is the victim of a "media frenzy seeking ratings over truth" and that NBC caused him "unjustified public persecution" Id.

Adjacent to this post is a large red button reading, "Donate to the George Zimmerman Defense Fund," which when clicked takes the potential donor to Zimmerman's fundraising site. "

​

Wonder if Zimmerman is still selling autographs? I've heard some of his donations have been drying up since that doxing incident and witness tampering that the inbreds at the Conservative Treehouse were doing.

I hear DiWhataman (!) has been busily purging his site, and he's had some pretty scurrilous things to say about how unethical O'Marrrrr, his former love-pumpkin, was conducting himself.

When the tree-nuts say you're unethical, that's saying something. lol

Like cobras calling rat snakes slimy.

 

[Unabogie]

<pedantry> He'll actually force Zimmerman into yes/no responses because it won't give Zimmerman any way to explain anything away.

"You called the police 8* times in the last year for similar suspicions, correct?"
"I dunno"
"I have the records here that show it was 8. So, this was you, right?"
"Yes"
"OK. In all those cases, they were young black males, weren't they?"
"I dunno"
"In the records, it shows none were Caucasian. Can you confirm that with a 'yes', please?"

The reason this is even worth posting is because even such a short exchange as this illustrates just how bad it will be for his own defense to have George take the stand. I'm not a competent lawyer, but I'm familiar with the technique -- and a competent lawyer will have George looking like something just short of Charles Manson when he's done.

The defense absolutely cannot afford to have George on the stand with all this mud available for him to be dragged through; they need to keep the prosecution at bay as long as possible without doing so.

Now imagine that seguewaying into this:

"Now, let's move on to the call you made that night. He was also black, by the way, correct?"

"Yeah".

"You saw that right away, right?"

"I dunno"

"I'm going to play you a recording of it and let's establish where you were and what you saw as we go along, ok?"

Then they start at the top, just like Serino did, and they stop right where he says "he's coming to check me out". Then they ask him how far they've traveled up to that point and ask him how they traveled so far in 40 seconds, etc, etc, etc.

So he goes from Charles Manson to Jon Lovitz as the Pathological Liar.

 

[KatieG]

What is the source of those photos?

At the police station that night.

 

[KatieG]

And now you know why I asked you if it was just certain people (TM) who shouldn't be called names.

And now we see why you dodged the question.

Calling MOM names doesn't reflect poorly on MOM, but on the maturity level of the poster, IMHO.

I didn't dodge your question, you didn't like my answer. See how that works?

 

[Rare Truth]

How much you want to bet Shellie Zimmerman will be found guilty of Perjury?

You wanna belly up? Sig line for a month?

Whaddya say?

I'm still wondering if L8 is going to take me up on this...

 

[Dan O.]

George's view, just before he enters the T

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac218/Uther2/03front1211.jpg

There's a hilarious point in the walkthrough video when George is saying that he didn't know the address, he is raising his arms and practically pointing at that very address behind him.

 

[Rare Truth]

There's a hilarious point in the walkthrough video when George is saying that he didn't know the address, he is raising his arms and practically pointing at that very address behind him.

That was a truly precious moment.

 

[Dan O.]

Yes, there are many reasons to doubt that story. Isn't it much more likely that a guy who was pursuing a "suspect", and cussed about him getting away, continued to pursue him?

Does anyone still buy the story that he was looking for an address? Is there any evidence to support that? At all?

If you don't count as evidence when George found the address on Retrete View Circle and stayed there so he could tell the police where he was when they called back; The best evidence is on the NEN call recording showing that George was incapable of describing to the dispatcher where he parked his truck and the dispatcher then insisted that George walk to the next street and look for an address there.