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Did the US really steal Iraq's Oil?

Not when the dream was a remade Middle East that was going to be enabled by a happy-domino effect once Saddam was toppled. The small-ball you're talking about wouldn't have given nearly the return THAT particular wet-dream was going to deliver...
 
Some backup for the obvious:

Chuck Hagel, 2007: "People say we're not fighting for oil. Of course we are. They talk about America's national interest. What the hell do you think they're talking about? We're not there for figs."

General Abizaid, 2008: "Of course it's about oil, it's very much about oil, and we can't really deny that. From the standpoint of a solider who's now fought in the middle east for six years – my son-in-law's fought there for four years, my daughter's been over there, my son has served the nation – my family has been fighting for a long time."

David Frum, today: "I was less impressed by Chalabi than were some others in the Bush administration. However, since one of those 'others' was Vice President Cheney, it didn't matter what I thought. In 2002, Chalabi joined the annual summer retreat of the American Enterprise Institute near Vail, Colorado. He and Cheney spent long hours together, contemplating the possibilities of a Western-oriented Iraq: an additional source of oil, an alternative to US dependency on an unstable-looking Saudi Arabia."

This was a really valuable document for pre-Iraq war thinking on energy strategy, geopolitics and how Iraq fit in, commissioned by Cheney and looks like James Baker was involved in this one. Whole thing is worth a read but this was a good quote:

For the most part, U.S. oil policy has relied on maintenance of free access to Middle East Gulf oil and free access for Gulf exports to world markets, relying heavily on military preparedness. The U.S. has forged a special relationship with certain key Middle East exporters that had an expressed interest in stable oil prices and, we assumed, would adjust their oil output to keep prices at levels that would neither discourage global economic growth nor fuel inflation. Taking this dependence a step further, the U.S. government has operated under the assumption that the national oil companies of these countries would make the investments needed to maintain enough surplus capacity to form a cushion against disruptions.

But recently, things have changed. These Gulf allies are finding their domestic and foreign policy interests increasingly at odds with America’s strategic considerations. They have become less inclined to lower oil prices in exchange for security of markets, and evidence suggests that adequate investment is not being made in a timely enough manner to increase production capacity in line with growing global needs. The opening of new media outlets in the Middle East has also increased the likelihood that a linkage will emerge in the minds of citizens there between the U.S. alliance with Israel and cooperation on oil prices. Moreover, a trend toward anti-Americanism could affect regional leaders’ abilities to cooperate with the U.S. in the energy area. The resulting tight markets have increased U.S. and global vulnerability to disruption and provided adversaries undue potential influence over the price of oil. Iraq has become a key “swing” producer, posing a difficult situation for the U.S. government...​
Cheney and company saw their current dominance in the region showing some signs of fragility... Iraq was a key player in contributing to uncertainty in the region in terms of the continued American influence there... and I guess what's ironic was that an identified trend of "anti-Americanism" reducing cooperation with the Americans was to be solved by invading and occupying a ME nation... I guess they just cherry picked the stuff they liked..;)
 
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I'm of the opinion that Iraq was an attempt to encourage a western style democracy in the Middle East that wasn't Jewish. If it was successful then the prosperity and happiness of the new Iraq would act as a beacon to other dictatorial regimes and erode the anti-American feelings that foster extremism. Iraq was an ideal place to start: It was already fairly secular, its military was demoralised and weakened and there was already casus belli to invade based on Saddam's game of hokey-cokey with the UN resolutions.

Unfortunately this failed for numerous reasons, initially because of a lack of international support resulting in the appearance of unilateral American aggression compounded by the utterly boneheaded attempt to retroactively justify the invasion on the pretext of finding "WMDs" instead of concentrating on stopping the insurgency.

Iraq became a beacon alright.

On a more positive front the campaign in Afghanistan and later Pakistan seems to have fulfilled its primary objective of destroying Al-Qaeda's ability to organise.

In answer to the OP I would suggest that no, "stealing" oil was not on the agenda. It would be considerably less expensive both politically and financially to start drilling in Alaska before invading Middle Eastern countries who already sell oil to the West on extremely inequitable terms.

The bolded is a pretty good summation of why I actively encouraged an invasion during the Clinton admin.

STRATEGIC ENERGY POLICY CHALLENGES FOR THE 21ST CENTURY
Commissioned by Dick Cheney in April 2001
Guess what the 'other means' turned out to be?

But it wasn't stealing. Oh no. We paid market rates! :rolleyes:

Bully: Hey dude, that's a nice jacket you got there. Sell it to me for a dollar!

Victim: Er, I don't think so - it's worth more to me than tha...

Bully: <BOOT>

Victim: <doubles over in pain, drops jacket>

Bully: Thanks for the jacket dude, here's your dollar (might help to pay your medical bills, hah hah!).

...and all the oil companies lived happily ever after. :mad:


Here's a more accurate version:

Bully: Hey dude, that's a nice jacket you got there. Sell it to me for a dollar!

Victim: Er, I don't think so - I'm actually selling them for fifty cents! To anyone!

Bully: <BOOT>

Victim: <doubles over in pain, drops jacket>

Bully: Okay so now can I buy it for a dollar?

Victim: No, now I'm selling them for $2 and to anyone but you.

Bully: Oh, that's too bad. Heh I refuse to allow universal health care back in my country but I thought I'd pay for all your medical expenses.

Victim: Oh, okay. But I'm still not selling you the jacket.
 
The bolded is a pretty good summation of why I actively encouraged an invasion during the Clinton admin.

I'm more interested to find Americans who were interested in bringing democracy to Iraq during the Reagan administration... THAT is the more "true test" of one's ostensible allegiance to universal values of human rights and democratic government.
 
You know how sometimes you go into a room to get something, but once inside you forget why you came into the room in the first place? It's like that. We went to Iraq to get the oil, but then forgot.
 
You know how sometimes you go into a room to get something, but once inside you forget why you came into the room in the first place? It's like that. We went to Iraq to get the oil, but then forgot.

It's actually not that bad an analogy, having forgotten WHY we then must face WHAT the reason is that can justify the displacement of millions and the death of hundreds of thousands in a terrible toll on an already stressed public infrastructure and the amazing cost in American treasure and blood.

And then motivated reasoning rears its ugly head - but I can appreciate the actual sentiment of noble motives is legitimately believed and felt by all those who have placed a halo around the American intervention. It's just that the halo enabled the whole thing to begin with and I'm just not sure how much the good intentions count for the people who had to live through it - and that goes for American soldiers too even if the most important demographic here is the Iraqi people.

Probably won't be the last time we see a road to hell paved with good intentions...
 
I'm more interested to find Americans who were interested in bringing democracy to Iraq during the Reagan administration... THAT is the more "true test" of one's ostensible allegiance to universal values of human rights and democratic government.

Well I can't help you there. I was three years old when Reagan took office.
 
In 1991, Richard Nixon had an op-ed in the NYT discussing what why we were moving into the Persian Gulf. He began by saying what the war was NOT about: democracy, stopping another Hitler, liberation.

We are in the Persian Gulf for two major reasons.

First, Saddam Hussein has unlimited ambitions to dominate one of the most
important strategic areas in the world. When Senator Bob Dole said we were in
the gulf for oil and Secretary of State James Baker said we were there for jobs,
they were criticized for justifying our actions on purely selfish grounds. We
should not apologize for defending our vital economic interests.

...

There is an even more important long-term reason for rolling back Iraq's
aggression. We cannot be sure, as many believe and hope, that we are entering
into a new, post-cold-war era where armed aggression will no longer be an
instrument of national policy. But we can be sure that if Saddam Hussein profits
from aggression, other potential aggressors in the world will be tempted to wage
war against their neighbors.

In other words, the second reason comes down to "Don't F with us." Does anyone else remember the neo-cons crowing that North Korea wanted to talk (when, in fact, Bush Jr. gave them every incentive to pursue WMDs, which they acquired).
 
totally miss the point

the point was not to get iraq's oil :confused:

bushco wanted less oil supply :p
so they shut down iraq oil production
and did NOTHING to restart it
there by making the oil bushco controled worth more

it worked very well
oil went from 10 to 100 per barrel

it was never about getting more oil
it was about supply vs demand
and profits
as less supply = more profits
 
the point was not to get iraq's oil :confused:

bushco wanted less oil supply :p
so they shut down iraq oil production
and did NOTHING to restart it
there by making the oil bushco controled worth more

it worked very well
oil went from 10 to 100 per barrel

it was never about getting more oil
it was about supply vs demand
and profits
as less supply = more profits

That's sort of the plot of Goldfinger, only with oil. Oilfinger?
 

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