Political correctness.

[banquetbear]

That was a well researched refutation.

...it was certainly better than smartcooky's assertions without evidence!

And you do realize that there was actual substance to joesixpack's refutation, correct? And that all you did was snip that substance and quoted three random sentences?

I'm a New Zealander and can stand, hand on my heart and state that smartcooky's assertions are BS. The 40% figure is nonsense and he won't be able to provide a cite. I just finished photographing the Wellington Dragon Boating Festival and yes, there were winning schools and loosing schools and happy kids and sad kids and the scores are indeed public record.

So your refutation of joesixpack's refutation is a fail. An absolute fail.

 

[smartcooky]

So two things strike me about this post, one it's claims are absolute fiction, and two, you didn't even read the story (which doesn't actually support your claim) to which you linked.

Well, only one thing strikes me about this post. It supports an observation I have made over a number of years now, and that is, most proponents of Political Correctness are seriously lacking a sense of humour.

Of course, I have no evidence to support this, only my own observations.

Thanks for your "contribution" to the discussion.

Well, since I regard Political Correctness to be a joke, (and a sad one at that) I thought my "contribution:" was very much in line with my thoughts on the issue.

 

[joesixpack]

Well, only one thing strikes me about this post. It supports an observation I have made over a number of years now, and that is, most proponents of Political Correctness are seriously lacking a sense of humour.

Of course, I have no evidence to support this, only my own observations.

Well, since I regard Political Correctness to be a joke, (and a sad one at that) I thought my "contribution:" was very much in line with my thoughts on the issue.

Sorry if I didn't get the "joke". You've used quite a bit of fiction in your attack on "political correctness". It's frankly not surprising that I'd be confused, considering your "satire" is indistinguishable from the BS you've tried to pass off as fact in this thread.

 

[PhantomWolf]

When did that happen?

Mid to late 90's

why?

I'm guessing, but likely because some idiot in power thought that it sounded more comforting that "suspects".

 

[smartcooky]

Here's one:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ncillors-gender-joke-led-dressing-police.html

Yep, its this kind of utter bollocks that really pisses me off, and just illustrates what I said earlier about PC being a cancer.

Sometimes a joke is just a joke! In times past, if you were offended by a joke, you told the person who made it that you were offended by their remark and asked for an apology. Now, it would seem, you are encouraged to go running off like goody two-shoes to tell tales to the teacher.

Whining to the Police because you can't take a joke is pathetic and gutless. The Police have got REAL offending to deal with, not this unimportant bollocks!

 

[psionl0]

...it was certainly better than smartcooky's assertions without evidence!

Are you talking about that particular post or joesixpack's original response to smartcookie?

And you do realize that there was actual substance to joesixpack's refutation, correct? And that all you did was snip that substance and quoted three random sentences?

The so called "substance" was just an argument from incredulity.

I'm a New Zealander and can stand, hand on my heart and state that smartcooky's assertions are BS.

Does "hand on my heart" pass for proof nowadays?

The 40% figure is nonsense and he won't be able to provide a cite.

40% might be nonsense but lack of evidence is not proof that it is nonsense.

I just finished photographing the Wellington Dragon Boating Festival and yes, there were winning schools and loosing schools and happy kids and sad kids and the scores are indeed public record.

What does an inter-school carnival have to do with passing/failing students and whether they are held back a year or not?

So your refutation of joesixpack's refutation is a fail. An absolute fail.

Joesixpack called "BS" without providing any actual evidence that it was "BS" and I merely pointed it out to him. You two are trying to create the strawman that I support smartcooky's assertions in order to side step the fact that neither of you two have evidence of your own to refute the assertions.

 

[joesixpack]

Joesixpack called BS and hasn't been provided with evidence to the contrary. Guess what? Absence of evidence is evidence of absence of evidence. Smartcooky has backed up none of his claims. Neither have you. I smell fertilizer.

 

[angrysoba]

Yep, its this kind of utter bollocks that really pisses me off, and just illustrates what I said earlier about PC being a cancer.

Lighten up!

 

[banquetbear]

Are you talking about that particular post or joesixpack's original response to smartcookie?

...ah, that explains it. Your one of those "point for point" posters. Don't worry, I can play that game too: as annoying as it can be.

Which particular post made by smartcooky would you say would be an assertion with evidence? Go on, pick one.

The so called "substance" was just an argument from incredulity.

Incorrect. "I can't find one single mention of this ever happening except in satires of "political correctness", which you snipped from his response, is not an argument from incredulity. It is in fact evidence of research. Research that I'm sure you could replicate yourself by using this search engine called google.

Does "hand on my heart" pass for proof nowadays?

Does snipping quotes out of context and sarcastically writing "That was a well researched refutation" pass for debate now day's?

40% might be nonsense but lack of evidence is not proof that it is nonsense.

Actually it is.

What does an inter-school carnival have to do with passing/failing students and whether they are held back a year or not?

Nothing. It has everything to do with the following claim by smartcooky:

"3. Children at state-run schools are not allowed to excel, especially in sports. Excellence is frowned upon, so there are no winners or losers and the scores are not kept, lest it should dent the egos of the less successful children, and their parents. It is no coincidence that our most successful sporting schools are private schools (or as they strangely call them in Britain, "Public Schools")"

Which was responded to by joesixpack:

"This sounds like BS as well. The way children are treated when they fail is far different than when you and i were children, but they most definitely are held back a grade still and they are certainly given failing grades as well. Perhaps NZ is wildly different, or maybe you spend a lot of time reading reactionary editorials and mistake it for the news."

Note the bold. That was the only part you quoted. Note the claims by smartcooky. I refute his claims with the photos of secondary children who are sad because they lost and the scores that are forever enshrined on the internet. smartcooky is talking bollocks.

Joesixpack called "BS" without providing any actual evidence that it was "BS" and I merely pointed it out to him. You two are trying to create the strawman that I support smartcooky's assertions in order to side step the fact that neither of you two have evidence of your own to refute the assertions.

Incorrect. smartcooky provided anecdotal assertions with no evidence. joesixpack called him on it. You seem to be backing smarkcooky: even though there is no evidence at all to back up any of his claims. This is a skeptical board. It would hurt to remember that once in a while.

 

[PhantomWolf]

While I suspect that the 40% figure is way over what the real figure is, nurses here are certainly trained in cultural awareness, and even have compulsary Te Reo Maori language courses. There have been cases were students have been kicked from their courses from objecting to having to do so.

Personally I can say that a large chunk of my Literacy Education course was focused on Maori Literacy, though probably only about 20-25% of the entire course.

 

[banquetbear]

While I suspect that the 40% figure is way over what the real figure is, nurses here are certainly trained in cultural awareness, and even have compulsary Te Reo Maori language courses. There have been cases were students have been kicked from their courses from objecting to having to do so.

Personally I can say that a large chunk of my Literacy Education course was focused on Maori Literacy, though probably only about 20-25% of the entire course.

...here is the claim:

"2. Nurses, doctors and paramedics (in NZ anyway) spend 40% of their study time being forced to learn "cultural sensitivity" (so that they don't offend someone's spiritual well-being and other forms of woo woo) rather than learning how to care for them medically and to save their lives."

Even taking your anecdotal evidence into account: there is no way it is true. Its BS: no matter how many ways psionl0 wants to spin it.

 

[angrysoba]

While I suspect that the 40% figure is way over what the real figure is, nurses here are certainly trained in cultural awareness, and even have compulsary Te Reo Maori language courses. There have been cases were students have been kicked from their courses from objecting to having to do so.

Personally I can say that a large chunk of my Literacy Education course was focused on Maori Literacy, though probably only about 20-25% of the entire course.

It's not that unusual for people working in the public sector to have to speak the national language.

In Ireland, for example, you have to be able to speak Irish to be a policeman, policeperson, police officer, Garda.

 

[kerikiwi]

Mid to late 90's

Cite please. I have never heard of it before. And it went on for several years?

 

[psionl0]

Even taking your anecdotal evidence into account: there is no way it is true. Its BS: no matter how many ways psionl0 wants to spin it.

I'm not spinning anything. You just can't handle the fact that you can't prove your claim that it is BS. That is just your opinion.

 

[banquetbear]

I'm not spinning anything. You just can't handle the fact that you can't prove your claim that it is BS. That is just your opinion.

...That was a well researched refutation.

Well, actually it wasn't. I actually don't have anything to prove. Your beef is not with myself or with joesixpack but with smartcooky. Its laughable that you think that we anything to prove.

Did you find any assertions from smarkcooky with evidence? Any at all? Why are you taking any of his claims at face value?

You seemed determined before to quote me point by point to try and prove me wrong: but you failed miserably. So are you now going to resort to just quoting snippets? How about conceding you got things wrong?

 

[psionl0]

Did you find any assertions from smarkcooky with evidence? Any at all? Why are you taking any of his claims at face value?

Why don't you provide the post numbers where I said that I am taking any of smartcooky's claims at face value.

AFAIK both claim and counter-claim lack evidence.

You expect everybody to believe he is talking BS simply because you say so.

 

[banquetbear]

Why don't you provide the post numbers where I said that I am taking any of smartcooky's claims at face value.

AFAIK both claim and counter-claim lack evidence.

You expect everybody to believe he is talking BS simply because you say so.

...his claims are outlandish. I've refuted his sports claim: if you have evidence otherwise then provide it. joesixpack has attempted to find evidence that the "Manager" story was true but didn't find any. If you have evidence otherwise then provide it. The 40% claim is not backed up by anecdotal evidence by posters in this thread. It isn't backed up the results of a thirty second google search. If you have evidence otherwise please provide it.

http://www.otagopolytechnic.ac.nz/images/information sheets/NUR BN1.pdf

Evidence has been provided by the "counter claimers". smartcooky is talking bollocks and he knows it and you should know it too. It should come as no surprise that a google search for

40% political correct nurses new zealand

(no quotes) brings up only this thread: its not the first time smartcooky has been his own cite.

 

[psionl0]

No post numbers?

I've refuted his sports claim:

I actually don't have anything to prove.
....
Its laughable that you think that we anything to prove.

 

[banquetbear]

No post numbers?

...ahhh, the roll eyes defense! When all else fails, change the subject!

I don't actually have anything to prove, but I've refuted his sports claim anyway. Was that what I got the rolleyes for? Do you think that somehow those statements are contradictory? Well they aren't.

So how long are you going to drag this out anyway? Changing the subject and avoiding answering questions and thowing in random rolleyes? Is that what you believe internet debating is?

The first post I quoted of you you attacked joesixpack's position by selectively quoting him and removing his refutation of smartcooky: then used sarcasm to act like his entire argument was repeating the "BS" line. That method of attack you used was dishonest. I pointed that out.

You haven't backed down from that position: but you are asking me and joesixpack to provide proof for our positions: even though we have already provided proof to you and in one case you purposefully deleted that proof and tried to make it look like joesixpack hadn't provided it. That was dishonest. In the meantime smartcooky has provided no proof for his outlandish claims. Yet you choose not to say a word against any of his posts.

So my evidence that you are taking his claims at face value in the absence of any evidence at all of his claims is your insistence that it is up to the people challenging his claims that we need to prove our position. We don't. If someone claims the earth is flat we shouldn't have to bend over backwards to prove that it isn't. If someone claims that doctors and nurses spend 40% of their time learning political correctness to the detriment of their medical studies there has to be some proof on that. I don't need to provide proof to ask him for a cite. The claim that there are no winners or losers at college sport and the scores are not kept is preposterous for anyone who lives in this country.

Cite: http://www.collegesport.co.nz/sport

You are all over the place. Stop being a "no-claimer" and come with an actual position. The onus of proving a case does not rest on the person asking for citation.

And in answer to your question: the post in which you revealed where you "hang your hat" is post 120 where you dishonestly snipped joesixpack's quote to make it look like he said something he didn't.

 

[psionl0]

The onus of proving a case does not rest on the person asking for citation.

But you didn't ask for citation, you said "BS". Those are two completely separate things. They are not at all the same. They are chalk and cheese. They have nothing to do with each other.

And in answer to your question: the post in which you revealed where you "hang your hat" is post 120 where you dishonestly snipped joesixpack's quote to make it look like he said something he didn't.

Post #120 doesn't say that I took smartcooky at face value. Guess again.