"Natural medicine" healer charged with maliciously infecting 16 people with HIV

[Ellen Travis]

"Natural medicine" healer charged with maliciously infecting 16 people with HIV

Horrific if true

A Swiss music teacher charged with infecting 16 people with HIV by injecting them with needles contaminated by the virus has been arrested after he refused to go to court.
The 54-year-old man, who is not being named in accordance with Swiss law, is said to have told his patients, many of them his music students, that he could 'heal' them with acupuncture.
Police stormed his flat in the Swiss capital Bern after he stopped attending his trial and instead barricaded himself at home.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-accused-infecting-16-HIV.html#ixzz2NtzaTvVL

 

[Weak Kitten]

It is a Daily Mail article. From what I have heard they can be rather fast and loose with their facts.

While it is true that some acupuncture practitioners have been caught reusing their needles in an unsanitary manner I have not heard of many cases where anything like this happened. Most forms of acupuncture are quite far removed from the bloodletting of the original Chinese version.

 

[Ellen Travis]

It is a Daily Mail article. From what I have heard they can be rather fast and loose with their facts.

While it is true that some acupuncture practitioners have been caught reusing their needles in an unsanitary manner I have not heard of many cases where anything like this happened. Most forms of acupuncture are quite far removed from the bloodletting of the original Chinese version.

Other news reports in foreign languages state that the strain of the virus was the same for all 16 alleged victims and that police suspect that he used a syringe to infect them.

The DM is the only report I could find that included this information

The self-proclaimed healer's flat in the capital Bern was surrounded by police marksmen after he came out brandishing two samurai swords.

which drew an interesting picture in my mind and I used it as a link for that reason (that and it being English language).

IME the Mail is a fairly good source of news about sex cults, even if the reports are not completely accurate, and are often completely uncritical. Anyone with access to google can find the original stories, often in non-English languages, and sort the wheat from the chaff themselves.

It is a bit like the agent in Men in Black who considers the National Enquirer the "Hot Sheets" because they print the stories about aliens that the quality press ignore. Eurotrash and HBO Real Sex are also good places to find features on criminals involved in sex cults IME, although of course you have to use some discretion as the bad guys are presented as naughty, cheeky rascals rather than predatory criminals.

 

[Segnosaur]

It is a Daily Mail article. From what I have heard they can be rather fast and loose with their facts.

After a quick googling, I found the same story (or elements of it anyways) reported by multiple sources (some of whom have a better reputation than the Daily Mail.)

http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/03/15/...-in-Switzerland/3071363379403/?spt=fsb&or=ros
http://news.yahoo.com/swiss-police-arrest-healer-accused-infecting-16-hiv-171016687.html
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/03/15/us-swiss-healer-idUKBRE92E0SS20130315

 

[Flo]

For once, the Daily Mail has got is mostly right.

According to the Geneva "Tribune de Genève" , the "healer" stands accused of infecting at least 16 persons with the VIH. He's looking at 15 years (more likely 5-6, unfortunately) behind bars.

The poor thing was so tired, physically and emotionally, and refused to go to court after the first week. When the police showed up at his door, he welcomed them with a sword and a knife and threatened to use a firearm. He's been arrested and sent to a hospital but he'll have to attend court again.

 

[GnaGnaMan]

I checked with german language sources and can confirm what Flo says. The Daily Mail is, if anything, very anti-sensational. (ETA: usually it's not.)

He is not being accused of accidentally infecting patients as part of incompetent acupuncture. He is accused of doing it purposefully using various pretexts, specifically acupuncture. He is also accused of having spiked drinks to knock out victims.

 

[Weak Kitten]

Wow, thanks for checking up on this one guys. This is one sick case if even part of those accusations are true. I do wonder what goes through the mind of a man who would intentionally infect others with HIV.

Does anyone know if intentionally infecting someone with a deadly disease (even one as slow as HIV/AIDS) counts as murder?

 

[shuttlt]

Does anyone know if intentionally infecting someone with a deadly disease (even one as slow as HIV/AIDS) counts as murder?

Presumably they'd have to die?

 

[GnaGnaMan]

Wow, thanks for checking up on this one guys. This is one sick case if even part of those accusations are true. I do wonder what goes through the mind of a man who would intentionally infect others with HIV.

He denies everything so that will remain a mystery. He comes across as pretty crazy.
BTW. The pleas have been made today. The verdict is due at the end of the week. My money is on guilty.

Does anyone know if intentionally infecting someone with a deadly disease (even one as slow as HIV/AIDS) counts as murder?

I think it can in principle. I have only ever heard of people sentenced for battery, though. I don't think this guy in particular is tried for murder.
In Switzerland, spreading a human disease is specifically illegal as well.

 

[ddt]

Wow, thanks for checking up on this one guys. This is one sick case if even part of those accusations are true. I do wonder what goes through the mind of a man who would intentionally infect others with HIV.

Does anyone know if intentionally infecting someone with a deadly disease (even one as slow as HIV/AIDS) counts as murder?

Depends on the jurisdiction. There was a case in the Netherlands the last years, of two men (themselves HIV positive) who injected others with HIV. The judge did not go with attempted murder, on basis of the quality of current AIDS drugs (link, link).

 

[BenBurch]

Here in Illinois we have a Felony HIV transmission statute;

http://www.suntimes.com/18855033-76...th-felony-for-allegedly-transmitting-hiv.html

 

[casebro]

And if some one dies as a result of a felony, it's murder? And no statute of limitations on capitol crimes?

 

[Damien Evans]

There was a similar case here recently of a drug addicted abortion doctor convicted of infecting his patients with hep c. He got 14 years. This one sounds even worse.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/d...bortion-clinic-infections-20121109-291wc.html
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/t...ars-jail-for-hep-c-doctor-20130307-2fmjc.html

 

[BenBurch]

And if some one dies as a result of a felony, it's murder? And no statute of limitations on capitol crimes?

That would be correct as I understand matters.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I don't know about this story. Acupuncture needles are highly unlikely to transmit HIV.

There's just not enough blood there, and once dried, the virus wouldn't be viable.

I'm going to say, from what we have so far, it's a BS story.

 

[EHocking]

I don't know about this story. Acupuncture needles are highly unlikely to transmit HIV.

There's just not enough blood there, and once dried, the virus wouldn't be viable.

He didn't necessarily have to use acupuncture needles to transmit the virus, but the pain and punctures from an acupuncture session would be a very good cover for using a hypodermic needle to inject the virus.

I'm going to say, from what we have so far, it's a BS story.

no. The story is quite real, since he has been charged and the trial is taking place right now.

I have to cite this source from Medical Daily just so I can quote this,

The victim launched a criminal complaint in 2005, and it took several years before investigation could pinpoint the acupuncturist.​

ETA : also from that article,

The police investigation concluded that the man had used various pretexts to prick his victims, but it remained unclear exactly what objects he had used. In other cases, the investigation found, the self-described healer — who is not HIV-positive — had served his victims drinks that made them pass out so he could infect them.

 

[catsmate]

And if some one dies as a result of a felony, it's murder? And no statute of limitations on capitol crimes?

IIRC the old Common Law principle was that death must occur within a year and a day of the assault for a murder charge to be brought. I believe that some jurisdictions have altered this, for some charges.

 

[Flo]

I don't know about this story. Acupuncture needles are highly unlikely to transmit HIV.

There's just not enough blood there, and once dried, the virus wouldn't be viable.

I'm going to say, from what we have so far, it's a BS story.

Unfortunately, the story is very real. From available informations in the Swiss media, he managed to obtain some infected blood and injected it under the guise of acupuncture treatment, using a regular needle. Experts have shown the VIH strain to be the same for all victims, which wouldn't be the case if they had infected each others.

 

[Capsid]

Experts have shown the VIH strain to be the same for all victims

VIH? I resume that's a typo for HIV, but that's the second time now.

 

[phunk]

VIH? I resume that's a typo for HIV, but that's the second time now.

I believe that's the french translation.