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skyrider44 said:
To my knowledge, you haven't used the derogatory term "magic underwear" in referring to the garments Mormons wear and hold sacred. Others on this thread have used that term--sometimes mockingly.

I can't help but wonder if they would refer to the bindi (red dot located between the eyebrows worn by married Hindu women) as a "magic marker." The dot is a sign of social status and the sacredness of the marriage covenant.

I also can't help but wonder if some of those same posters would refer to the small box orthodox Jews bind to their foreheads as "magic headgear." The box, called a tefillin, contains verses from the Torah written on parchment. Those verses are sacred to many Jews.
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Wonder no more--I wouldn't have any qualms about referring to any of those objects as "magic" whatever, particularly if someone posted on a thread in the JREF forums defending their use. It's just all superstitious BS. I have no problem pointing that out.
 
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Suppose I said I had a devine ring. All you had to do is wear it, and no misfortune will befall you.

What would you call that? And please, be honest.
 
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skyrider44 said:
Post 5156, jsfisher: "Joseph Smith was a Class-A con artist."
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Yes, and I stand by that. Joseph Smith was a Class-A con artist. Of course, the LDS leadership agrees, so I didn't think the point was in dispute. Would you like to dispute the point, or are you just continuing your latest derail from those uncomfortable things you cannot bear to discuss?
 
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skyrider44 said:
Taking the off-ramp, are you? Clearly, you have no credible refutation to the documentation I have posted (which is a matter of public record).
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I would appreciate it if, instead of being disrespectful, you would actually post evidence.

If you believe you have, in fact, posted practical, empirical, physical evidence, attested to by neutral scholars, of (for instance) horse culture, or domestic cattle husbandry, or the cultivation of wheat, or of steelmaking technology, in the pre-Colombian Americas, I, for one, would be fascinated to see it--be so kind as to provide a link to the posts in this thread in which you feel you have presented such evidence.

If you believe you have, in fact, posted practical, empirical, evidence that mesoamericans and amerindians are, in fact, of semitic descent; evidence that contradicts the fact that DNA analysis shows no such descent, I, for one, would be fascinated to see it--be so kind as to provide a link to the posts in this thread in which you feel you have presented such evidence.

If you believe you have, in fact, posted practical, empirical evidence that the "translations" of the Breathing Permit of Horus that claim that standard Egyptian funerary texts contain the autograph of Abraham's time in Egypt, I, for one, would be fascinated to see it-- be so kind as to provide a link to the posts in this thread in which you feel you have presented such evidence. Bonus points for demonstrating one non-mormon Egyptologist who uses, or has used, J.Snith's "dictionary" to translate other hieroglyphic texts...
 
skyrider44 said:
Apparently, you tacitly agree with my point.
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Regardless of the victory you're attempting to claim here, you're still stuck with the fact that your beliefs are incorrect. It's not that your beliefs are theologically or spiritually incorrect but what you believe is factually wrong. The Book of Abraham is an incorrect translation. The things in your book that were supposed to be in the Americas prior to Columbus are not (swords, barley, horses). There is nothing you can do short of providing evidence that these things were present in the New World before the Age of Exploration to change this.
 
skyrider44 said:
To my knowledge, you haven't used the derogatory term "magic underwear" in referring to the garments Mormons wear and hold sacred. Others on this thread have used that term--sometimes mockingly.

I can't help but wonder if they would refer to the bindi (red dot located between the eyebrows worn by married Hindu women) as a "magic marker." The dot is a sign of social status and the sacredness of the marriage covenant.

I also can't help but wonder if some of those same posters would refer to the small box orthodox Jews bind to their foreheads as "magic headgear." The box, called a tefillin, contains verses from the Torah written on parchment. Those verses are sacred to many Jews.

Point: Some on this thread have shown lamentable disrespect for Janadele and her faith. In my opinion, there is no excuse for that.
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Hinduism is an ancient, broad and fascinating religion that has developed many interesting concepts along with texts of great secular value. It is deserving of respect. Mormonism on the other hand is simply a Christianity rebooted for Americans (a bit like redoing "Coupling" or "The Office" with American characters, accents and plot elements) that has run roughshod over the traditions of its precursors, trampled on ancient Egyptian culture, and craps on Native American peoples from above by rewriting their history for them. And we know too much about Joe and his baloney.

ETA: And dear Janadele has often been given more respect than she gave in return. The cut and pasting and failure to engage was just plain rude behaviour on a discussion board.
 
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jsfisher said:
Yes, and I stand by that. Joseph Smith was a Class-A con artist. Of course, the LDS leadership agrees, so I didn't think the point was in dispute. Would you like to dispute the point, or are you just continuing your latest derail from those uncomfortable things you cannot bear to discuss?
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Well you see, your hurting old dirty hat joe's feelings when you say that, or something.
 
skyrider44 said:
Oh? Here is what 15 minutes of reviewing posts on this thread reveals:
Post 5156, jsfisher: "Joseph Smith was a Class-A con artist."
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Hi, skyrider44.
What's inaccurate about that assessment?
Do you have some reason to think the BoA is anything but a scam?
 
skyrider44 said:
Oh? Here is what 15 minutes of reviewing posts on this thread reveals:

...

Post 5164, zooterkin: "too weak to operate a keyboard, as she's undergoing a fast of biblical proportions".

...

No disrespect in any of that, huh? Nothing but mature, rational, civil, truth-seeking discourse--right?
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Interesting that you've changed what was a link to the post where Janadele says she's fasting for 40 days and 40 nights (a very biblical reference) to just an underline. It's almost as if you're looking for things to be offended by rather than simply answering the questions you've been asked.

Now, what about the evidence that supports the claims regarding the swords, domestic cattle, and barley?
 
skyrider44 said:
Oh? Here is what 15 minutes of reviewing posts on this thread reveals:

Post 5107, RandFan: "Acting like a Stepford wife is a poor way of getting others interested in your beliefs."

Post 5096, RoboTimbo: "regurgitated mindless pap from LDS doctrine. . . ."

Post 5110, halleyscomet: "It was a chance to show off she can use teh [sic] Google AND knows how to copy and paste text."

Post 5164, zooterkin: "too weak to operate a keyboard, as she's undergoing a fast of biblical proportions".

Post 5183, deaman: "It seems one of the major impetus [sic] in the mormon religion is how much sex you can have in all of eternity, with as many partners as you can gather."

Post 5189, Empress: "The problem with the LDS for men. . .is that in their afterlife, women are actually [sic] give birth, so I'm assuming women are on the rag there, too."

Post 5043, deaman: "It's time for the world to wake up from the hypnotic BS it's been shilling for thousands of years."

Post 5156, jsfisher: "Joseph Smith was a Class-A con artist."

Post 5160, RoboTimbo: "We keep asking the wrong questions. The ones that would make most people think."

No disrespect in any of that, huh? Nothing but mature, rational, civil, truth-seeking discourse--right?
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Report them if you think any rules have been broken.
 
Sideroxylon said:
Hinduism is an ancient, broad and fascinating religion that has developed many interesting concepts along with texts of great secular value. It is deserving of respect. Mormonism on the other hand is simply a Christianity rebooted for Americans (a bit like redoing "Coupling" or "The Office" with American characters, accents and plot elements) that has run roughshod over the traditions of its precursors, trampled on ancient Egyptian culture, and craps on Native American peoples from above by rewriting their history for them. And we know too much about Joe and his baloney.
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I disagree. Useless traditional Chinese medicine is no more worthy of respect because it's old, than homeopathy is worthy of ridicule because it's closer to the age of Mormonism. If a living person today believes in something, it makes no difference if they can claim that someone a thousand years ago believed in it too. Wrong is wrong.

Because I know more about the background that Mormonism sprang from, I find it far more fascinating to see how it arose in American culture, from a historical/sociological perspective, than to read about Hinduism. If I were interested in the culture of another country or in a different time period, I'd obviously find another religion more fascinating.

But lies, manipulation and nonsense are not deserving of respect, no matter who told them or how long ago someone dreamed them up.

I'd say the only advantage of a religion being old and well-established, is that its members are predictable so you can figure out how much harm they'll do. But Mormonism has pretty much reached that point and been holding steady as yet another politically conservative branch of Christianity for the last 50-75 years.

People are deserving of respect, or at least neutral treatment, unless they've actively done something to deserve otherwise. I wouldn't interrupt a religious meeting or bring up the topic of someone's religion in a negative way, for no reason, whether it was invented yesterday or 4,000 years ago.

But this:

ETA: And dear Janadele has often been given more respect than she gave in return. The cut and pasting and failure to engage was just plain rude behaviour on a discussion board.
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People resort to ridicule when it's clear that someone doesn't want to engage with them as a human being and just wants them to shut up and listen. It takes two to discuss.
 
skyrider44 said:
Oh? Here is what 15 minutes of reviewing posts on this thread reveals:

Post 5107, RandFan: "Acting like a Stepford wife is a poor way of getting others interested in your beliefs."

Post 5096, RoboTimbo: "regurgitated mindless pap from LDS doctrine. . . ."

Post 5110, halleyscomet: "It was a chance to show off she can use teh [sic] Google AND knows how to copy and paste text."

Post 5164, zooterkin: "too weak to operate a keyboard, as she's undergoing a fast of biblical proportions".

Post 5183, deaman: "It seems one of the major impetus [sic] in the mormon religion is how much sex you can have in all of eternity, with as many partners as you can gather."

Post 5189, Empress: "The problem with the LDS for men. . .is that in their afterlife, women are actually [sic] give birth, so I'm assuming women are on the rag there, too."

Post 5043, deaman: "It's time for the world to wake up from the hypnotic BS it's been shilling for thousands of years."

Post 5156, jsfisher: "Joseph Smith was a Class-A con artist."

Post 5160, RoboTimbo: "We keep asking the wrong questions. The ones that would make most people think."

No disrespect in any of that, huh? Nothing but mature, rational, civil, truth-seeking discourse--right?
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Since you tacitly agree with the point that you are being disrespectful by avoiding the substantive issues, will you now start posting honestly and answering the questions put to you?

Clearly you have no refutation to any of the criticisms brought up about the LDS. Perhaps you could explain how your religion is deserving of respect when there is so much evidence that it is a fraud originally perpetrated by a conman. We've asked you and Janadele to defend your religion and you've both run away from the opportunity. Janadele by regurgitating mindless pap from LDS doctrine and you being deliberately dishonest by taking every side avenue you can to avoid the main street.

If you keep avoiding the substantive issues, your arguments will continue to be deliberaely dishonest.
 
skyrider44 said:
Oh? Here is what 15 minutes of reviewing posts on this thread reveals:

Post 5107, RandFan: "Acting like a Stepford wife is a poor way of getting others interested in your beliefs."
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I absolutely stand by that. The poster in question will not engage in discussion but instead simply copies and pastes propaganda. It's a waste of everyone's time.
 
skyrider44 said:
Taking the off-ramp, are you? Clearly, you have no credible refutation to the documentation I have posted (which is a matter of public record).
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Are you ever going to address your claim that faith is a component of the scientific method?
 
Skyrider responds like a scientologist, but I guess that makes sense because the two groups are quite similar.
 
skyrider44 said:
Taking the off-ramp, are you? Clearly, you have no credible refutation to the documentation I have posted (which is a matter of public record).
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You know they just don't make martyrs like they used to, once they faced wild lions without flinching, strong in their faith, now a little razzing on the internet and they whine like babies.
 
GT/CS said:
Skyrider responds like a scientologist, but I guess that makes sense because the two groups are quite similar.
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Yes, I see your point, but do the Scientologists have a choir that can compete with this?
 
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