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Elbe Trackway

This is the first I have heard of any new rules at the BFF. Sounds like an interesting rule, and it would be doubly interesting to read what it says.

Well here you are.......

F. Any member who claims to have disingenuously presented evidence of Bigfoot or that proof from others has established that they have perpetrated a hoax of evidence for the existence of Bigfoot shall be banned from participation on the Bigfoot Forums (BFF). The terms “Hoax and Hoaxing” as they pertain to this section shall be defined as:

1. An act intended to deceive or trick.
2. Something that has been established or accepted by fraudulent means

For investigative purposes, accusations of a “Hoax or Hoaxing” must be accompanied by supporting documentation reasonably identifying the alleged member and incident which can include; photographs, audio, video, computer files, Internet links, ISP data, and/or any other relevant information. Unsubstantiated reports or claims will not be accepted. If the investigation findings support the accusation(s) then the member will be banned by a BFF Administrator.

It really would have helped if they had written it in English rather than in gibberish.

I can't see any way that this rule can be applied other than arbitrarily, unless someone actually admits to a hoax. Not many hoaxers do that. There has to be an element of the Admins (only Art and AaronD[!!!!!!!] at the moment) acting as judge and jury. Given that AaronD openly applauded an overt threat of blackmail, believes the world is 6000 years old, and had a fake dinosaur and human footprint as his avatar, judgement isn't going to be his strong point.

If they ban you or anyone, you/ they could appeal to the Steering Committee. However, they are kicking people off that for trivia and replacing them, so who knows how impartial that is now. This new rule is going to be entirely discretionary, and that won't be good for that highly fractious forum.

I'm standing by for another implosion, and the emergence of BFF 3.0

Mike
 
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Tontar,

If you put down the trackway I wish you would "confess". As RayG's timeline showed, the experts were falling all over themselves saying how promising the trackway looked. Bravo to you or whomever! :D

If you are giving up bigfootery why don't you give us the scoop on the KK hoax about finding the patty suit?
 
Tontar,

If you put down the trackway I wish you would "confess". As RayG's timeline showed, the experts were falling all over themselves saying how promising the trackway looked. Bravo to you or whomever! :D

If you are giving up bigfootery why don't you give us the scoop on the KK hoax about finding the patty suit?

LOL, nope, I'm not giving up bigfootery, not completely anyway. It goes in cycles, my interest and participation that is. It's spring, the weather is awesome, and my other hobbies really consume me, and they are sheer fun and excitement. Writing that, I realize it sounds a bit like Kitakaze's swan song thing, where he talked about the passions of women and all that. Well, I'm a bit older, married with kids, and so I'm not finding new women to turn me away from the pleasures of bigfootery. I fly, and it's flying season, and so that's where my time (and thoughts) go.

I honestly don't know any more about the Patty suit than anyone else does. Kit never confided in me anything that was not posted on the forums. There always was that suspicion, but there are always a lot of suspicions that make for increased drama that just don't have the goods behind them. Last thing I read on it was in the Mathilda thread on the BFF, where Bill said that Kit told him he'd verified the Patty suit via a live phone camera link with a contact, where that person did something like a Skype or iChat video with him, while they were in the room with the suit. So, if that's the case, then it would explain why there is no photos coming forth of the Patty suit, it was a live video feed look at it. That's all I know about it, and I read that on the BFF, posted by Bill. So the fact is, he knows more (from Kit) than I do.

And as far as the Elbe tracks go, don't expect an admission from me any time soon! :-) Sorry about that. RayG's timeline kind of puts it all into perspective in a way that is hard to dispute. It does appear that people were convinced the tracks were real. A buddy of mine keeps telling me that it's pretty strange that the only thing that has convinced them that the tracks were not authentic was an IP address, and that if they base authenticity on IP addresses, they don't have a lot of science behind their analyses. Worse tracks are considered real only because they can't figure out who made them, or don't have a viable suspect, or worse yet, because they know who made them and they are well known bigfooters, so they'd never be exposed as fake?

And even if it comes down to the BFF staff believing that they have sufficient evidence to ban me, they don't. They don't have evidence of my involvement at all. They can't possibly. I can say that with complete confidence. Regardless of what Daniel Perez has written, or anyone else has said on the BFF or other blogs, all they can do is try to fill in the massive blanks they have, as creatively as possible. They aren't being creative enough.

Let's say that their IP address theory was even close enough to match it to my house, which it isn't. But say it was. Even so, I have a sort of party house, where people come and go all the time. Some are hard wired bigfoot believers, and some are hard wired skeptics. Some have no involvement with bigfoot at all. Like I said, people come and go here a lot, and so I have very little control over what people do on the internet. I got a warning at one point from our provider, saying they had evidence of some particular movie being downloaded against copyright. Whoa, who was that? I had to put out the warning, no downloading movies! So, regardless of what anyone thinks they have, they don't have my fingerprints on anything. They might smell my cologne, but mine is not the only one in the air here. :-)
 
Well here you are.......



It really would have helped if they had written it in English rather than in gibberish.



Mike

That was Masterbarber's attempt at legalise, right up there with Robin Lynn's attempt at professional writing.

So when are they going to ban Melba? Seems like there is more than enough evidence there. What about Jeff Meldrum for selling casts at conventions of known hoaxed prints? How are they going to apply this?

Oh I can't believe I asked such a silly question....they will apply it as they do all of the other rules, as stringently or as twisted as they so desire.

I said it before but it's worth repeating, " No one will ever accuse a footer of being a genius."
 
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I wonder whose face is getting red and sweaty after reading Tontar's last post ? :)
 
Generally an IP address is enough to give a rough location. Like an estimate. It's usually tied to your provider and I'm be bloody skeptical if someone told you they could even tell you which house an IP address was used at. For that they'd need access to the records at the ISP themselves, and they aren't forthcoming with that information for any lackwit that asks for it.

I will cite an example. At the moment my IP address is 207.172.10.203. If you do an IPWHOIS on that address, which is more than likely what those admins did, you'll get an address in Herndon, Virginia. Yet I'm in Bethlehem, Pennsyvania. The IPWHOIS is showing where the office is of the entity that owns the IP block, not the location of the computer using that IP address.
 
I will cite an example. At the moment my IP address is 207.172.10.203. If you do an IPWHOIS on that address, which is more than likely what those admins did, you'll get an address in Herndon, Virginia. Yet I'm in Bethlehem, Pennsyvania. The IPWHOIS is showing where the office is of the entity that owns the IP block, not the location of the computer using that IP address.

This can be very confusing when you look at website traffic. I manage websites for a number of local businesses and looking at their Google Analytics, all of them show a significant amount of traffic from Boston. We're in southern Pennsylvania. Presumably those are actually local visitors who use the same ISP.
 
It's also why you'll see lots of targeted ads on the internet that all seem to cite the same town and state. ;)

Find (product) near YOU in (city), (state)!
 
I'm going to make some stompers and start leaving prints in every town I go to.

Who cares? :) It'll be fun.
 
Generally an IP address is enough to give a rough location. Like an estimate. It's usually tied to your provider and I'm be bloody skeptical if someone told you they could even tell you which house an IP address was used at. For that they'd need access to the records at the ISP themselves, and they aren't forthcoming with that information for any lackwit that asks for it.

I will cite an example. At the moment my IP address is 207.172.10.203. If you do an IPWHOIS on that address, which is more than likely what those admins did, you'll get an address in Herndon, Virginia. Yet I'm in Bethlehem, Pennsyvania. The IPWHOIS is showing where the office is of the entity that owns the IP block, not the location of the computer using that IP address.

I got Pennsylvania just now. PA for the Location, and VA for the owner, so I would not think you were in VA.
 
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The evidence brought forward by the bleevers to try and tie Tontar to the hoaxed trackway is spurious.

Or - in layman's terms - they don't have a clue.

Who woulda' thunk it? :D
 
So Tontar is family man who likes to spend time with his wife and kids, when he's not flying planes or partying at some house specifically dedicated that purpose where throngs of people come to take advantage of the free wi-fi?
 
So Tontar is family man who likes to spend time with his wife and kids, when he's not flying planes or partying at some house specifically dedicated that purpose where throngs of people come to take advantage of the free wi-fi?

Hmmmm...sounds vaguely socialist. String him up! :D

Also sounds like a ready made excuse for whatever shenanigans might be going on with his computer. "Porn?!? What?!? No way!!! Must have been one of those nameless, faceless strangers who keep coming by to use my computer!"

(Note: I'm not saying Tontar is innocent in all this - I'm just saying that there is not enough evidence to convince me he is definitely the one. Unless - of course - he doesn't keep his mouth shut!) ;)
 
I'ld like to see if researcher's would repond to another reported set of tracks in the same general vicinity? Would they just scoff and ignore it or would they go every single time there was a report to check them out. From the perspective of a proponent, the only scientific approach to take would be to go investigate every single report.
 
Hmmmm...sounds vaguely socialist. String him up! :D

Also sounds like a ready made excuse for whatever shenanigans might be going on with his computer. "Porn?!? What?!? No way!!! Must have been one of those nameless, faceless strangers who keep coming by to use my computer!"

(Note: I'm not saying Tontar is innocent in all this - I'm just saying that there is not enough evidence to convince me he is definitely the one. Unless - of course - he doesn't keep his mouth shut!) ;)

Where are those investigative skills you supposedly possess? Tontar has just told you that he concedes the IP address match to his house, but it's such a big Wi-Fi party there, who knows who actually posed as "Tontar" from his house? Who bragged on the BFF that he had made some bigfeet and that he was going to give them a go then went to Elbe, which was less than 50 miles from his Wi-Fi palace and took pictures of the trackway, which he never posted? Give me a break. :rolleyes:
 
Where are those investigative skills you supposedly possess? Tontar has just told you that he concedes the IP address match to his house, but it's such a big Wi-Fi party there, who knows who actually posed as "Tontar" from his house? Who bragged on the BFF that he had made some bigfeet and that he was going to give them a go then went to Elbe, which was less than 50 miles from his Wi-Fi palace and took pictures of the trackway, which he never posted? Give me a break. :rolleyes:

I don't think so.
...Let's say that their IP address theory was even close enough to match it to my house, which it isn't. But say it was...
 
A perfect example of seeing what isn't there, or what you want to see.
 
Tontar has just told you that he concedes the IP address match to his house, but it's such a big Wi-Fi party there, who knows who actually posed as "Tontar" from his house? Who bragged on the BFF that he had made some bigfeet and that he was going to give them a go then went to Elbe, which was less than 50 miles from his Wi-Fi palace and took pictures of the trackway, which he never posted? Give me a break. :rolleyes:

Clearly, you are a conspiracy theorist, or more likely a very paranoid and suspicious kind of guy.

Check again, I never conceded that the IP address matched my house. Read closely if you think I did. What I did say was that my "house" is subject to quite a few people coming and going, and using my wifi. Yes, we do tend to have people over a lot. We're not as old as our years might suggest. Yes, we party a bit. Yes we have lots of visitors. Whatever. So what. I never said I conceded anything, much less that any reports to the BFRO, or to anyone else were from my house, or my computer, or my fingers, or whatever you might wish I had conceded. Roll your eyes as you wish, you still know very little about what you are talking about.

Also, read the BFF posts again, more closely this time. I never said anything about having made feet, that I was going to "give them a go". Dream on, big guy, you're manufacturing pieces to the puzzle that simply don't exist. What I have said, not that you seem to care to pay attention to, is that footprint evidence is poor evidence at best. That anyone could manufacture the vast majority of prints that constitute the best evidence for the existence of bigfoot. How you spin that into some sort of pre-confession is beyond me.

Did I say that I had gone to Elbe on my way to eastern Washington to check out the trackway? Sure I did. Did I take pictures? Sure I did. Big deal. Is Elbe 50 miles from my house? I don't know. But I figure that I could probably calculate the distance from my house to just about any bigfoot evidence site, whether it be Bluff Creek, Mt. St. Helens, London, OR, Yakima, British Columbia, Ohio, Cuba, the moon, whatever. Check out the BFRO database, this area is swarming with sightings, everywhere. There seem to be bigfoots within 4 miles of my house! Am I also to be charged with forging those accounts too? fact is, those accounts, within miles of my house, have been going on long before my living here. How do you account for all that activity? Real ones? Real bigfoots living within a stone's throw on my house, long before I moved here?

You think posting the pictures I took at Elbe after the researchers obliterated the area would be of value? How so? It looked like the day after a rock concert, thousands, if not millions of human footprints everywhere. The pristine lake side was cluttered with human prints, plaster remnants, garbage, and so on. Nice way to leave a scene. I took photos of several people that were there as well, trophy hunters, people making casts of the sucked out remains of prints that had already been cast. That interests you? The fact that I never posted that stuff is somehow compelling to you? Seriously? I think you need to widen your perspectives, get some additional hobbies, have a bit of fun and break away from being so judgmental and suspicious of everything.
 

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