Moderated Global Warming Discussion

[CapelDodger]

You had a record snow fall, was it accompanied by a record low temperature.

You'll no doubt recall Inhoffe's Igloo, but not everybody's aware that it melted away in less than three days. That's how warm it was in Washington.

In the UK the snow we've been getting has mostly been coming with warmer air from the Atlantic and the Bay of Biscay; the cold weather has been coming from Russia or Scandinavia and only picks up a little moisture from the North Sea, very little of that reaching us here in Old South Wales. We still get the cold air, of course, but the hills aren't white like they were in my childhood.

It's also worth considering that the Antarctic, the coldest place on earth, is so cold it is the driest continent, it is too cold to even snow most of the time. With global warming, they should be getting more snow there.

There are confounding factors in the Antarctic (the ozone hole in particular), but in principle you're right. I've not seen any reference to published research on that, and there may not be a long enough observation period to warrant any. I've no doubt there are people on the case, though, and they're probably Aussies.

The Antarctic is, of course, a ponderous beast relative to the Arctic canary, but in the medium- to long-term is much more dangerous. The Arctic is more immediate, more telegenic, more iconic, and much closer to where r-j's "people" live. You know, the ones who have Xmas in winter as nature intended.

 

[CapelDodger]

Nice attempt at plying misdirection in order to dodge a question you know you can't cover.

It was a disastrously signalled trap because r-j has a quote from a bone fide scientist that "our side" follows slavishly (probably Trenberth or Hansen) which says different. "We" then disappear in a brief flash of self-contradiction marked only by the fleeting signature of a Gore particle.

 

[r-j]

I live in Florida. It's been very cold the last few weeks. Very unusual.

 

[CapelDodger]

Which confirms what I said. So now, no matter what the weather does, you can blame it on global warming. Which is pretty cool, because I am sick and tired of this record cold.

Are you blaming that record cold on the non-existence of AGW?

 

[CapelDodger]

I live in Florida. It's been very cold the last few weeks. Very unusual.

Not unique? Just unusual?

 

[Megalodon]

I live in Florida. It's been very cold the last few weeks. Very unusual.

That's the final straw... everyone knows that Florida is the perfect model for Global Warming, with its vast glacier fields and extensive deserts.

Nothing for us to do but repent of our ways, and prepare for the incoming ice age.

Or maybe you could get a clue...

 

[Megalodon]

Here's a clue:

[The U.S.]Winter warming accelerated almost everywhere since 1970, and all states have warmed since that time. Nationwide since 1970, winters warmed more than four-and-a-half times faster per decade than over the past 100 years. [my bold]

 

[CapelDodger]

That's the final straw... everyone knows that Florida is the perfect model for Global Warming, with its vast glacier fields and extensive deserts.

Are you denying Floridian Exceptionalism?

Nothing for us to do but repent of our ways, and prepare for the incoming ice age.

The upside of that is obvious : New England gets it first. Florida actually gains, as sea-level falls and Cuba gets closer. There's a killing to be made in the Floridian property market. That's one of the abiding features of Florida, where the promise has always exceeded the return.

Or maybe you could get a clue...

That would be to recognise that he has missed the boat on Floridian profit-taking. It's all downhill from here if one accepts how sensitive Florida is to AGW. Would you make such a cognitive leap? It's a lot to ask.

Some might well ask if I could make the cognitive leap to acceptance that AGW is not a substantial issue, and I can't give an answer. I've never been presented with any reason to, nor did I lightly conclude that it would be in the first place.

 

[a_unique_person]

I live in Florida. It's been very cold the last few weeks. Very unusual.

How much snow did you get in Florida?

 

[a_unique_person]

I mean, this record global warming. There is an old movie called "Bananas," And the CIA sends troops to fight on both sides of the revolution because they're afraid of being on the wrong side.

That anecdote was completely irrelevant

Now that global warming can literally do anything weather wise, it's the perfect solution to explaining the weather.

No, it can't.

No wait, somebody needs to say if things stay the same, then it's global warming. There. Now we have the perfect theory.

Another irrelevant remark.

Is the cold weather in Florida a record? How are the summers going?

 

[Pixel42]

Is the cold weather in Florida a record?

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/national/2013/2 (my bolding)

Climate Highlights — winter season (December 2012 — February 2013)

•The average temperature for the contiguous U.S. during the winter season was 34.3°F, 1.9°F above the 20th century average, marking the 20th warmest winter on record.

• Winter was warmer than average for all states east of the Rockies, with the largest departures from average along the East Coast. Florida, Delaware, and Vermont each had one of their ten warmest winters on record. Conversely, the Southwest was cooler than average, and near-average winter temperatures reported in the Northwest.

•The winter nationally-averaged precipitation total of 7.10 inches was 0.63 inch above the long-term average.

• The above-average temperatures were accompanied by above-average precipitation for most states east of the Rockies. Many states in the Great Lakes region and Gulf Coast — Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia — had winter precipitation totals ranking among their ten wettest. Below-average precipitation occurred from the West Coast through the Northern Plains and Rockies.

• According to data from the Rutgers Global Snow Lab, the winter average snow cover extent for the contiguous U.S. was 1.3 million square miles, which was 127,000 square miles above the 1981-2010 average. This marked the 15th largest seasonal snow cover extent in the 1966-present period of record.

• The U.S. Climate Extremes Index (USCEI), an index that tracks the highest and lowest 10 percent of extremes in temperature, precipitation, drought and tropical cyclones across the contiguous U.S., was slightly below average during the December-February, period. However, the component that examines the spatial extent of drought was more than three times the normal value for the 3-month period.

• Based on NOAA's Residential Energy Demand Temperature Index, the contiguous U.S. temperature-related energy demand was less than half the 1895-2012 period of record average during winter. This was the 14th smallest such value on record.

 

[aleCcowaN]

Which confirms what I said. So now, no matter what the weather does, you can blame it on global warming. Which is pretty cool, because I am sick and tired of this record cold.

I mean, this record global warming.

You remind me the story of a girl who caught a venereal disease. Her father was outraged that she was no longer a virgin and wanted to throw her out of their home but she would insist she was indeed a virgin and offered all kind of theories about the fact, but most of all, she would constantly rephrase the same elements to keep the illusion going and a state of doubt that anybody in the family could buy. The father once asked mine -who happened to be his physician- if it was possible that her daughter had caught such a disease from a public toilet, as one of her favourite theories was. My father replied: yes, but it's extremely uncomfortable and the window of opportunity, very narrow.

So, there's always a way to argue the unlikely, even the impossible, even the ridiculous, if you are insistent enough, both resilient and unyielding. You can insist you are still a virgin and a virgin still, in spite of you liking to be b***** on Friday and twice on Saturday. Also you can insist there's no global warming because your bedsheets came untucked and your feet were poking out all night so they feel now as ice.

You already tacitly admitted that you have nothing serious to say about the subject of this whole thread as you lack the most elementary knowledge about all what is involved in it, so, in a perfect world, you should remain mute about the whole subject. That's why you know you can't argue with me on this subject as you wait for others to reply to them. The problem is, why do they reply your poor posts? I think there are several elements there: the pleasure of arguing, specially with someone that demonstrates that after Malcolm's there were even more possible downgrades, but mostly because a misplaced moral sense of deniers being worth a chance at rehabilitation. I do think criminals deserve the opportunity of rehabilitation, but not deniers in this thread. Why? Because I don't think criminals deserve rehabilitation in the very moment they are committing their crimes; in such occasions they must be stopped instead.

So we only have here you playing the shell game: "where's global warming? ... now it's here ... now it's there ... " and a lot of people trying to guide you into reasoning what you're saying, only to have you replying about "virginity". They have failed in understanding you: an unprepared person who like warmer climates -and lived in such places or moved to such places as soon as s/he could- that is playing the well known game of "I know nothing, yet I argue with them and make them doubt and think, so, if someone like me can do that it is there's no global warming!", that is, the epistemology of a narcissist with elementary school education and some connexion with reality, same old, same old we are so used to in forums.randi.org.

 

[a_unique_person]

Are you trying to deny that global warming can make it record cold?

Think of the tide coming in. The waves still go in and out.

 

[Lennart Hyland]

r-j...

...Sense, makes none.

 

[r-j]

I live in Florida. It's been very cold the last few weeks. Very unusual.

Temperatures averaging 10 to 20 degrees below normal have taken a southward dip into the southeastern portion of the U.S., with temperature highs sitting unseasonably low in the 50 and 60 degree range.

http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2013/03/0...ing-florida-spring-breakers-a-chilly-welcome/

Up until then the winter was warm and we actually had rain, which is very unusual as well. This global warming hitting in March sucks. I blame the low arctic ice. It's like what used to happen in the seventies and eighties. Cold in March, late frost and freezes.

And yes, there was snow this year in Florida.

I'm blaming global warming.

 

[r-j]

Is the cold weather in Florida a record? How are the summers going?

Some cold records, but nothing like 2009/10/11

Summers have been fantastic.

 

[Dancing David]

It's more likely most people are sick and tired of the snow and cold, and with more to come this weekend, it's hard to be that concerned over the imagined disaster coming.

Yeah, i think another drought summer would be just dandy, too hot, too dry and a bankrupt local economy is what I look forward to. Another year of water restriction and dying plants, that is what I dream of.

 

[Dancing David]

Winters have been getting colder. If this had been predicted as part of global warming, we would be hearing about how cold it's been, and crying over global warming.

Just like the mild winter last year in the US meant global warming.

You don't hear anyone except the poor Australians weeping over the warmth right now.

But as soon as it warms up, then we will see some activity. Because when it's hot in the summer, that's when you know global warming is happening.

Where are you from? Neither my son nor daughter has seen a colder than average winter. I mean really, the last cold spell we had was a butt cracker in 1992 and 1994, since then we have not had any real butt crackers (you know lows of negative 20 F). In fact the average winter temp here has risen over the last 30 years.

And those cold spells were not extended in any way.

 

[uke2se]

http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2013/03/0...ing-florida-spring-breakers-a-chilly-welcome/

Up until then the winter was warm and we actually had rain, which is very unusual as well. This global warming hitting in March sucks. I blame the low arctic ice. It's like what used to happen in the seventies and eighties. Cold in March, late frost and freezes.

And yes, there was snow this year in Florida.

I'm blaming global warming.

Are you sure you're comprehending the answers given to you in this thread? You keep conflating weather and climate so much, it seems you're doing it mendaciously.

 

[aleCcowaN]

You keep conflating weather and climate so much, it seems you're doing it mendaciously.

Is there any doubt about it?