Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[TheL8Elvis]

I'll think I'll stick with the position that Zimmerman is a liar.

How about you?

He seems have lied about who the officer was.

But it's OK, he's in good company with all the other liars involved in the case.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

You don't think the autopsy report would indicate if there was blood on a victim's hands?

They checked under his fingernails. No Z DNA. They noted lack of blood on the cuffs. No Z DNA.

Not a molecule.

Rather odd, wouldn't you say to completely leave out if the kid had bloody hands when the man who shot him claims those hands were lethal weapons and all...

As soon as you backup your claim that the hands were tested, you will be good as gold.

Until then, you know what they say about assumptions...

 

[TheL8Elvis]

You continue to mistake GZs version of events as absolute truth. It's a story, not a fact.

That's very dishonest of you. I presented it as evidence, which it is.

Unless you think his statement will be submitted as "an anecdote" during the trial, I'm pretty sure it will be submitted as evidence.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I don't deny there was a fight. Zimmerman does. He describes one person brutally assaulting another, not two people in a fight.

Fight: A violent confrontation or struggle.

If you think GZ description doesn't meet the definition of a fight, again, I believe you are in the minority.

Yes, after repeatedly slamming Zimmerman's head into the concrete sidewalk, and stopping his breathing, Martin finally announced his intentions upon reaching for a gun. You know, for anyone not quite clear on what was happening up to that point.

Considering how hard you worked to disingenuosly underplay the details of Zimmerman's account, I'd say that alternative viewpoint is called "denial".

Do you need a chart to tell you that fistfights and murder are completely different?

No, I was just wondering if you would admit that anything short of murder could possibly lead to or share characteristics with murder, but being so completely different, I suppose not.

At least we can agree that the behavior Zimmerman attributes to Martin is unusual.

Either that, or there was a reason.

 

[johnny karate]

Apparently the prosecution wasn't so sure, and they dropped the charges.

The prosecution dropped the charges because Zimmerman agreed to a pretrial diversion anger management program.

This has been covered. Many, many, many times.

As a matter of fact, OnlyTellsTruths just posted it again on this very page.

How many time does the same information need to be repeated?

 

[Cylinder]

Nor on Zimmerman's face. Hands on mouth and nose smothering with the force Z described would be bloody smears all over Z's face. None of that is shown in the bloody picture...

Zimmerman does have smeared blood on his face in the actual photo.

 

[johnny karate]

Fight: A violent confrontation or struggle.

If you think GZ description doesn't meet the definition of a fight, again, I believe you are in the minority.

Your constructing straw men in order to avoid discussing the real issue of whether or not Zimmerman describes a murder attempt, which he clearly does.

The fact that you have no response to how your purposely downplayed version of Zimmerman's account compares to his actual words is evidence of that.

No, I was just wondering if you would admit that anything short of murder could possibly lead to or share characteristics with murder, but being so completely different, I suppose not.

Zimmerman assaulted a police officer. Do you feel that makes him more likely to commit murder?

Either that, or there was a reason.

Not according to the way Zimmerman describes it. He was just a perfectly innocent victim.

 

[AlBell]

What makes you think that would be found in his school record ?

An A+ in Violent Murderer class would do it.

 

[johnny karate]

He seems have lied about who the officer was.

And he lied about whether or not the officer identified himself.

In short, he lied about the entire incident to make himself look like an innocent victim.

But it's OK, he's in good company with all the other liars involved in the case.

Good point. His wife is a liar, too.

And Zimmerman is the only liar here who killed someone and expects us to take him at his word he did so out of a reasonable fear for his life.

 

[johnny karate]

Zimmerman does have smeared blood on his face in the actual photo.

I look forward to the blue arrows you use to irrefutably prove this.

 

[Rare Truth]

Zimmerman does have smeared blood on his face in the actual photo.

That's not smear. That's drip.

 

[KatieG]

That's very dishonest of you. I presented it as evidence, which it is.

Unless you think his statement will be submitted as "an anecdote" during the trial, I'm pretty sure it will be submitted as evidence.

It will be admitted as his statement. His version of the events of that night. That doesn't make it the truth and all of your repeated posts don't make it evidence.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

And he lied about whether or not the officer identified himself.

According to the officer. We can hardly accept that, since it is self serving. That's your standard, right ?

In short, he lied about the entire incident to make himself look like an innocent victim.
Good point. His wife is a liar, too.

And the victims Mother, and Father, and their attorney, and his alleged girlfriend, too. I suppose they have as much relevance as GZ wife.

And Zimmerman is the only liar here who killed someone and expects us to take him at his word he did so out of a reasonable fear for his life.

I'm sure he doesn't expect much from you, just that whole little innocent until proven guilty thing. Which is apparently to much to ask from you.

 

[KatieG]

According to the officer. We can hardly accept that, since it is self serving. That's your standard, right ?



And the victims Mother, and Father, and their attorney, and his alleged girlfriend, too. I suppose they have as much relevance as GZ wife.



I'm sure he doesn't expect much from you, just that whole little innocent until proven guilty thing. Which is apparently to much to ask from you.

TMs family didn't appear in court and make statements under oath. Do you know something they've lied about in court?

There is no question that GZ killed TM. What will be determined at trial is why.

 

[johnny karate]

According to the officer. We can hardly accept that, since it is self serving. That's your standard, right ?

First of all, no, that's not my standard.

Second of all, not one officer, five officers. Five. For Zimmerman to have been telling the truth, five police officers would have had to conspired against him. Five of them.

Please, please consider that before you respond.

And the victims Mother, and Father, and their attorney, and his alleged girlfriend, too. I suppose they have as much relevance as GZ wife.

And yet you brought them up in response to Zimmerman being a liar.

So apparently in your world view, the accused murderer whose self-defense claim relies on his word is the person with whom you are least concerned about being truthful.

I'm sure he doesn't expect much from you, just that whole little innocent until proven guilty thing. Which is apparently to much to ask from you.

I'm... not on the jury.

 

[Cylinder]

I look forward to the blue arrows you use to irrefutably prove this.

Errr....I never claimed irrefutable truth. That's a bit different than pointing out that Zimmerman had smeared blood on his face. You know, right by his mouth and nose.

TRAYVON TRUTH #53: The arrow does not point to smeared blood.

The claim was that the absence of blood smears disproves the claim of smothering. I don't neccessarily agree with that premise, but we don't have to travel that far at this point since Zimmerman does have what very much appears to be blood smears near his mouth and nose.

Of course, Zimmerman could have had a jelly sandwich, his dad could have beaten him with a cricket bat, it could have been Shellie's menstrual blood, or it could have been something simple like Zimmerman wiped his own bloody nose. What also exists among those possibilities is that it was blood transfer from Martin's hands.

ETA: Little things like that smear is a good illustration of how the SAO is corrupt. This photo should have been presented to Zimmerman at the onset of discovery instead of the degraded copy.

 

[remirol]

It will be admitted as his statement. His version of the events of that night. That doesn't make it the truth and all of your repeated posts don't make it evidence.

And if it's admitted, the prosecution will get to drag George up on the stand and cross-examine him about it... which the defense appears to be wanting to avoid doing at all costs. So it may well never see the light of day in a courtroom, making it nothing more than an anecdote.

However, even all that aside, L8Elvis is deliberately conflating the definition of "criminal evidence" (ie. that submitted during a trial) with "evidence of truth", which is the term more often used around here. George (as the only living witness) saying that X happened has no bearing on the truth of whether or not any of X happened, as George has a material interest in altering the facts so that he doesn't get convicted of murder.

Under the standards L8Elvis is applying here, Mormonism is true, as Joseph Smith (the only witness to the text on the golden plates) _says_ there was text there, and therefore that must be evidence the text was there, right? I'm sure we can all see the flaw in _that_ reasoning.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Which takes us to this. FBI accounts from the other officers who were there. Five of 'em. All cops there at the sting.

Page 11: FBI Civil Rights Investigation

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN had an angry demeanor, and told Flicheman he did not care who he was. Fleichman attempted to escort GEORGE ZIMMERMAN away from the scene. GEORGE ZIMMERMAN then violently shoved Fleicherman, at which point all of the agents working together pushed GEORGE ZIMMERMAN onto the hood of Fannin's car and placed him under arrest for SAVAGE BATTERY upon a poor innocent guy just trying to do his job law enforcement officer.


Yep, all five Law Enforcement Officers saying George was lying. Again.

Did you read page 11 ? I can't find where they talked to "Five of 'em. All cops there at the sting."

Nor do I find that paragraph above. Why don't I see the same paragraph on page 11 that you have posted here ?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

TMs family didn't appear in court and make statements under oath. Do you know something they've lied about in court?

Is when you are in court the only time lying counts ?

They intentionally lied to the entire country through the media.

 

[Rare Truth]

Did you read page 11 ? I can't find where they talked to "Five of 'em. All cops there at the sting."

Nor do I find that paragraph above. Why don't I see the same paragraph on page 11 that you have posted here ?

Those last few words in bold are there to see who would actually go to the documentation to check it out. (they were obviously quite subjective. Did you get it?)

;0

But everything else is there.

Here, I'll even cart it over for ya's.

But I accept the correction. It was FOUR police officers who contradicted Zimmerman.