Continuation Part 4: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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Anyway he has a new alibi . He woke up during the night and sent emails. More important then any mistakes he made with Kate.

He doesn't say in the book that he sent them but did indicate IIRC that he couldn't sleep after making love and got up and did the email writing. I do find it odd that he mentioned this in his book if there is no proof as he should have anticipated your and the bookkeeper's reactions.

He specify that he was up several times in the 'night' listening to music making love answering emails and only wanted to go back to sleep. I find it strange that you want to say morning when he said night.

I think it fair to say the way he worded it that it was past the TOD time and therefore is no alibi. So midnight, 2 am, 6 am no difference. As I posted up-thread the police started out with a TOD earlier than 11:30 but needed to change because of Nara and Curatolo.

You ignored a bunch of much more relevant questions, pity.
 
Mansey wrote an article after her interview with Raffaele and after he was a suspect. This article goes a little bit further about meeting/impression of Raffaele.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Day+I...REDITH:+THE+HUNT+FOR+SUSPECT+No4.-a0171084546

There is a paragraph in the article about Raffaele changing his story and backtracking. She isn't explicit in the article about what she means by this.

I don't know if this is the article the poster is referring to or if Mansey wrote more in explanation to this article. I can't seem to find a list of her articles prior to 2008.

I don't know how closely Mansey followed the case and/or how accurate was her reporting on it.
Thanks for the link. I don't see how Mansey's second article adds or detracts from the first one.... perhaps someone can help me here.
 
The deputy prosecutor Giuliano Mignini, 62, passes from the prosecutor's office in Perugia Piazza Partisans, the Prosecutor General at the Court of Appeal of Umbria in Piazza Matteotti. Mignini will come to the second substitute, after Dario Razzi of the Attorney General, which is run by the head of John Galati and vice Giancarlo Costagliola.

Well it looks like they have a fourth for bridge. Italy has such a good history to whom they give promotions.
 
Anyway he has a new alibi . He woke up during the night and sent emails. More important then any mistakes he made with Kate.

Sorry, but are we back to where you reprobates IMPLY and INSINUATE that Raff and Amanda were complicit in the vicious murder of Amanda's co-habitee, and then you demand PROOF that they they WEREN'T?

Weirdo.
 
the words are ambiguous

He specified that he was up several times in the 'night' listening to music making love answering emails and only wanted to go back to sleep. I find it strange that you want to say morning when he said night. I'm not satisfied you think this has been dealt with The email recipients could verify when he sent them, Sollecito on ask.fm wrote (before he deleted his answers) that he emailed his Profs. So this should help his alibi.
IMHO there is some ambiguity when dealing with the word "night." It could mean a period of darkness, or it could mean the time between when a person goes to sleep and the time when he or she wakes up for good to begin the next day's activities. Likewise, "morning" could mean any time after 12 midnight but before 12 noon, or it could mean a period of time after a person wakes up for good. For example, is 3 AM "night" or "morning?" I am tempted to say both.

Do you at least agree that if he sent them after very roughly 2 AM, they are a side issue? Please feel free to choose a different time, if you find one that is more appropriate.
 
Don't let him; he might change his mind!

Kermit actually sent one of his Powerpoints to Paul Ciolino. I wouldn't put it past him to contact Douglas. The guy has no clue.

But the great thing about Douglas is, he really is willing to change his mind and critique his own mistakes. He does that with Heirens, but he always had doubts about Heirens. Robert Ressler, Douglas's mentor, was more rigid in believing that Heirens was guilty.

Douglas revisits the Ramsey case and is utterly candid about how he fell for Karr as a plausible suspect. He realizes the Ramseys are innocent, and he is frustrated about all the people who still think they did it, so he was eager to believe the case had been solved. Most guys would have said, "we thought Karr might be a good suspect, but that turned out not to be the case." But Douglas doesn't let himself off the hook so easily. He examines the underlying problem with his thinking.

Then he does it again with the WM3. Someone showed him a letter Damien Echols had written to Douglas's office, which Douglas had initialed to show he had seen it. He admits he doesn't remember it and probably didn't give two seconds' thought to whether the guy might really be innocent.

Then he talks about how Lorri Davis contacted him, and his first impulse was to write her off as a flake. But he listened, and he changed his opinion to fit what he was learning.

Douglas is a guy who realizes that recognizing and correcting mistakes is an integral part of the investigative process. That is rare. Think how many cases would get fixed if more people in the system did that.

It's really interesting to read his take on Mark Byers, who he convinced of the WM3's innocence and has come to respect. It's an all-around fascinating book. And he is as passionate about Amanda and Raffaele as he is about the WM3. He's passionate about the truth.
 
the methods of scientists

But Douglas doesn't let himself off the hook so easily. He examines the underlying problem with his thinking.
Obviously, my earlier comment was not serious, but this one is. Douglas would make a terrific scientist. My chief scientific mentor told me (paraphrase): "When an experiment turns out how you expected it to, that is good. When it turns out oppositely, that is better because now you have learned something." But Douglas is onto something equally important in a good investigator (whether or not a scientist). He probably does not want to make the same mistake twice.
 
Douglas is a guy who realizes that recognizing and correcting mistakes is an integral part of the investigative process. That is rare. Think how many cases would get fixed if more people in the system did that.

It's really interesting to read his take on Mark Byers, who he convinced of the WM3's innocence and has come to respect. It's an all-around fascinating book. And he is as passionate about Amanda and Raffaele as he is about the WM3. He's passionate about the truth.

It is rare. God help us.

But (and seriously OT);

It was DOUGLAS who "convinced" Byers that the WM3 where innocent?

Head-spin!!!!

This implies that Douglas believes that Byer's had no complicity or knowledge of the (Robin Hood Hills) murders? Or does it!!??

Jaysus!!

Now I've REALLY got my work cut out.
 
IMHO there is some ambiguity when dealing with the word "night." It could mean a period of darkness, or it could mean the time between when a person goes to sleep and the time when he or she wakes up for good to begin the next day's activities. Likewise, "morning" could mean any time after 12 midnight but before 12 noon, or it could mean a period of time after a person wakes up for good. For example, is 3 AM "night" or "morning?" I am tempted to say both.

Do you at least agree that if he sent them after very roughly 2 AM, they are a side issue? Please feel free to choose a different time, if you find one that is more appropriate.

We hear 4am often described as 4 '' in the morning". Technically its morning but we say it like that to emphasize the awful hour when we should still be sleeping. 6am is just morning period. Sollecito said he sent emails to his profs,on his ask fm and he assumes his Profs deleted them. That is a story that can be verified.
 
It is rare. God help us.

But (and seriously OT);

It was DOUGLAS who "convinced" Byers that the WM3 where innocent?

Head-spin!!!!

This implies that Douglas believes that Byer's had no complicity or knowledge of the (Robin Hood Hills) murders? Or does it!!??

Jaysus!!

Now I've REALLY got my work cut out.

Is that a nursing kitten? sorry if I'm seeing it wrong
 
OT again;

I've tried to get hold of "Paradise Lost; Purgatory", and failed.

It isn't available AT ALL in Europe (only as a region-1 NTSC import), so I ordered it from a reputable American supplier (via amazon.co.uk) late last year, and it got "lost" in transit.

I might try again, but it isn't cheap.

I find the same problem with many of the books I want to read concerning Edward de Vere's authorship of Shake-speare; they simply aren't made available on this side of the 'pond', which is to say, they aren't printed and you have to pay exhorbitant prices for imported US imprints.

It's censorship, in effect.

That's the power of MONEY and OWNERSHIP.
 
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We hear 4am often described as 4 '' in the morning". Technically its morning but we say it like that to emphasize the awful hour when we should still be sleeping. 6am is just morning period. Sollecito said he sent emails to his profs,on his ask fm and he assumes his Profs deleted them. That is a story that can be verified.

This was gone over some time ago. Would you provide the quote?

Would you also theorize why he would at this time lie about these emails? I'm not saying he sent them but if he didn't answer emails and send them or not I don't get why he would say it.
 
Is that a nursing kitten? sorry if I'm seeing it wrong

It's what you want to see.

I see it as a beautiful marmalade kitten, wrapped around a seriously impressive, tanned human mammary, warm and cozy.

I perceive that both parties/species were enjoying the experience.

But no, I don't think orange-kitty is "nursing", [edit for civility >>] which would be a rather perverted take on it.
 
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We hear 4am often described as 4 '' in the morning". Technically its morning but we say it like that to emphasize the awful hour when we should still be sleeping. 6am is just morning period. Sollecito said he sent emails to his profs,on his ask fm and he assumes his Profs deleted them. That is a story that can be verified.

So why not verify it?

Also, someone asked a question about anything Solleicto might have done after 2 am being irrelevant to any timeline of this horrible crime. I would benefit from an explanation on this point.

It seems that with Sollecito and Knox being forensically excluded from this crime that folk like yourself with these emails and with Mansey's reporting.... well, we've back away from consideration of the room in question, staged break-in's, DNA and the like and we're now talking about stuff that remains irrelevant if all the larger issues have simply fallen away.

I mean, does ANYONE believe the superwitnesses anymore? Does ANYONE believe that TOD is much past 9:30 pm? I know, I know, Hellmann puts it no later than after immediately 10 pm... but I hope you get my point.

Can you supply a timeline where all the major forensic evidence is gone, which explains why these side issues have anything to do with anything.

I am genuinely confused as to why these things even matter....

If the DNA is thrown out, if the superwitnesses are disbelieved, if the TOD pretty much excludes the two studetns.... is THIS "all the other evidence"?
 
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He doesn't say in the book that he sent them but did indicate IIRC that he couldn't sleep after making love and got up and did the email writing. I do find it odd that he mentioned this in his book if there is no proof as he should have anticipated your and the bookkeeper's reactions.



I think it fair to say the way he worded it that it was past the TOD time and therefore is no alibi. So midnight, 2 am, 6 am no difference. As I posted up-thread the police started out with a TOD earlier than 11:30 but needed to change because of Nara and Curatolo.

You ignored a bunch of much more relevant questions, pity.

I think Curatolo being a street person spent a lot of time observing people. A couple who didn't act like lovers may have interested him. Anyone hanging around the court likely was there for drugs , a mutual interest. The disco buses would have been just background noise. We tend not to pay attention to accustomed noise and he may have just assumed the buses were there on Nov 1. Seeing the men in white coats the next day was more important.If he remembered seeing the defendants after 9:15 and again around 11:30 , that doesn't take away from an earlier TOD. I haven't mentioned Curatolo because due to his lifestyle he is an easy person to discredit even though he may have basically remembered seeing what he saw. I also think the teacher who went to sleep after 9;30 awoke startled by the scream heard Meredith. That combined with the witness who was knocked by the black man running fits with that time of 10:30. The same time the car from Rome was seen broken down at the bottom of the stairs.
 
my speculation

p. 22, Honor Bound [9:30 AM]. "I was too groggy to talk. I'd been up several times in the night--listening to music, answering email, making love--and wanted only to go back to sleep. If the list above is given in temporal order, then it would seem that the email business happened after 5:30. Is that not when Raffaele made a playlist for the trip to Gubbio?
 
alibi

Also, someone asked a question about anything Solleicto might have done after 2 am being irrelevant to any timeline of this horrible crime. I would benefit from an explanation on this point.
Anything that Raffaele or Amanda did after whatever we can agree is the latest possible TOD does not seem to be an alibi, as I understand the term. I picked 2 AM because it is quite far past any reasonable TOD, but I wanted to be conservative for the sake of this conversation.
 
p. 22, Honor Bound [9:30 AM]. "I was too groggy to talk. I'd been up several times in the night--listening to music, answering email, making love--and wanted only to go back to sleep. If the list above is given in temporal order, then it would seem that the email business happened after 5:30. Is that not when Raffaele made a playlist for the trip to Gubbio?

Can you accept that he said he sent them to his Profs who he assumes deleted them. This was a clear answer he gave on ask.fm. Those emails or anything that can verify activity during the entire night of the murder would be important. Those emails if sent should be verified.
 
It is rare. God help us.

But (and seriously OT);

It was DOUGLAS who "convinced" Byers that the WM3 where innocent?

Head-spin!!!!

This implies that Douglas believes that Byer's had no complicity or knowledge of the (Robin Hood Hills) murders? Or does it!!??

Jaysus!!

Now I've REALLY got my work cut out.

Douglas never seriously suspected Byers. He suspects Terry Hobbs, but he doesn't flat-out say that. He makes a good case that it was someone known to the kids, not a stranger. I have always thought it was probably a random mental case, someone like Richard Chase or Richard Tuite, but Douglas convinced me otherwise.
 
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