2 questions re 1120 'Missing bodies' from WTC 1&2 & media complicity in mass murder

[Jbui]

Hi Chris,

Here's a question for you which has not been answered by anyone in the debunker-crowd, please give me your best answer:

Here's some facts that I think we can agree on:
-about 1120 victims remain missing, 20000 pieces of bodies were found, 6000 small enought to fit in a test tube. 300 out of 2800 bodies were intact. So we can agree that 1000-1500 of the people inside turned in to small or very small pieces, if not dust.

-if we exclude the 200 people in the planes and offices hit by planes, we are still left with +1000 people that turned into small pieces.

-debris from the towers was scattered in a 600 feet radius

-also human remains were found in approximately 600 feet radius from the towers:

a fall from 300-400meters to ground might crush all your bones and spill the guts out, but the body stays otherwise pretty much in one piece: This pic you have to google yourself: " 9/11 jumper body gore" -not for kids.

...so that shredding of the bodies to little pieces can not be accounted to the fall.

Debunkers here in JREF have speculated that the bodies went to small pieces because the collapsing floors smashed the people inside to small pieces. Normally in building collapses people stay usually intact, or severe a limb at most.

They have also said, that the aircurrent blew their bodies 600 feet. In e.g. verinages we can see that aircurrents from collapsing building doesn't blow the dust more than some 10 meters. Furthermore for the aircurrent to blow a human body part further than dust is not likely.

On the other hand we know that if a suicide bomber blows up his vest, he flies in all directions in small pieces. Also we know that if you are shot with shotgun at close range, you will have your guts fly in small pieces. Small human pieces scattered evenly can only be explained by having WTC tower blown up and the people inside instantly shred into pieces either by blastwave the threw shattered and pulverized building parts throught their bodies or molten iron that was eventually found in the dust.

So there remains a question: How did these people end up up to 600 feet away from the towers in small pieces, if they either had to be fying in the air to reach the 600feet, or be inside the towers for their bodies to suffer the damage to be ground up in small pieces. How can they be in two places at the same time? Also, which theory, if not explosion, would you use for scattering of the bodies to 300-600 feet radius: "ping pong"-theory or the "spring"-theory?

 

[George 152]

Would explosions blow them to tiny bits, and where were those explosions that would have been large enough to account for the distribution?

The lack of the sound of explosions on all and any of the video sound tracks after the aircraft hitting the buildings removes that possibility.

 

[Spanx]

Hi Chris,

Here's a question for you which has not been answered by anyone in the debunker-crowd, please give me your best answer:

Here's some facts that I think we can agree on:
-about 1120 victims remain missing, 20000 pieces of bodies were found, 6000 small enought to fit in a test tube. 300 out of 2800 bodies were intact. So we can agree that 1000-1500 of the people inside turned in to small or very small pieces, if not dust.

-if we exclude the 200 people in the planes and offices hit by planes, we are still left with +1000 people that turned into small pieces.

-debris from the towers was scattered in a 600 feet radius
[qimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/reprehensor/911/fig3.jpg[/qimg]
-also human remains were found in approximately 600 feet radius from the towers:
[qimg]http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff475/TwitchingLima/911-body-part-graphic-fox-news.jpg[/qimg]
a fall from 300-400meters to ground might crush all your bones and spill the guts out, but the body stays otherwise pretty much in one piece: This pic you have to google yourself: " 9/11 jumper body gore" -not for kids.

...so that shredding of the bodies to little pieces can not be accounted to the fall.

Debunkers here in JREF have speculated that the bodies went to small pieces because the collapsing floors smashed the people inside to small pieces. Normally in building collapses people stay usually intact, or severe a limb at most.

They have also said, that the aircurrent blew their bodies 600 feet. In e.g. verinages we can see that aircurrents from collapsing building doesn't blow the dust more than some 10 meters. Furthermore for the aircurrent to blow a human body part further than dust is not likely.

On the other hand we know that if a suicide bomber blows up his vest, he flies in all directions in small pieces. Also we know that if you are shot with shotgun at close range, you will have your guts fly in small pieces. Small human pieces scattered evenly can only be explained by having WTC tower blown up and the people inside instantly shred into pieces either by blastwave the threw shattered and pulverized building parts throught their bodies or molten iron that was eventually found in the dust.

So there remains a question: How did these people end up up to 600 feet away from the towers in small pieces, if they either had to be fying in the air to reach the 600feet, or be inside the towers for their bodies to suffer the damage to be ground up in small pieces. How can they be in two places at the same time? Also, which theory, if not explosion, would you use for scattering of the bodies to 300-600 feet radius: "ping pong"-theory or the "spring"-theory?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=9043402#post9043402

 

[Sabretooth]

You never accounted for the sprites? You know, those things truthers love to point to as proof of CD, but were really jets of air as the floors smashed into each other?

Air works very well at shooting things large distances. Perhaps, you've never seen Punkin' Chunkin' on Discovery Channel?

 

[LSSBB]

Hi Chris,

<reposted stuff clipped>

Dude, read your PMs, your original post was moved to an appropriate thread and replied to several times.

 

[pgimeno]

Debunkers here in JREF have speculated that the bodies went to small pieces because the collapsing floors smashed the people inside to small pieces.

That's right. Isn't that enough of an answer for your question?

Normally in building collapses people stay usually intact, or severe a limb at most.

What kind of building collapses? How many progressive collapses where the floors fall one on top of the other have had the people in the middle of these floors staying intact, or severe a limb at most?

You are aware that there were survivors inside the towers and that they didn't report any explosions, right?

 

[CORed]

Does the same happen to victims several meters away?
I think you hit upon the solution here: the 2000+ victims in the towers were all suicide bombers who blew up their vests!



Alternatively, you form an Argument from Incredulity: "It could not have been the force of a hundred thousand tons falling at high velocity, because I can't imagine that!"

One of the greatest psy-ops of all time, convincing 2000 people to become suicide bombers. Now that you've guessed the secret, I'd like you to try on the latest style in suit jackets. Don't let the odd styling with the wires sticking out put you off. It's the latest thing.

 

[Jbui]

Thanks for the reply. To be precise, I'm talking about the stuff that landed 100-200m away from the building. So the stuff that you see flying in the air, not something you say was under the footprint of the building. Also we all can see how far a squib blows something. maybe 10m, max 20m.

So please give me a simple answer to a simple question:
1. body part landed 200m away - how was it crushed?
2. Did air current blow it so far?
3. how many floor collapses did it take to turn a body into small pieces, and how was it possible that the body stayed inside the footprint for some time to get pinned by the collapsing floors, but some how suddenly accelerated to +50mph to reach 200m distance from the towers?

 

[Oystein]

Thanks for the reply. To be precise, I'm talking about the stuff that landed 100-200m away from the building. So the stuff that you see flying in the air, not something you say was under the footprint of the building. Also we all can see how far a squib blows something. maybe 10m, max 20m.

So please give me a simple answer to a simple question:
1. body part landed 200m away - how was it crushed?
2. Did air current blow it so far?
3. how many floor collapses did it take to turn a body into small pieces, and how was it possible that the body stayed inside the footprint for some time to get pinned by the collapsing floors, but some how suddenly accelerated to +50mph to reach 200m distance from the towers?

I think you have been several times told, and you ignored several times, that plane crashes rip people to shreds. Could you please acknowledge in a full sentence that you understand this? Several floor in both towers contained the shredded parts of certainly over 100 victims before the collapses even began. So there isn't even any need to explain who the collapses shred bodies, unless you can show that a significant proportion of the bits of human remains found at considerable dinstances were from victims above the crash zones.

With that in mind (and don't you dare responding to this post without acknowledging the >100 bodies shredded by the plane crashes!!!!), here are my answers:

1. Plane crashes
2. Yes. The visible parts of the squibs is from dust. Dust, due to its much higher surface-to-mass ratio, gets decelerated by air friction much sooner than larger parts such as body parts or concrete crumbles. It wasn't just body fragments that landed on those roofs in the vicinity.
3. Irrelevant, as long as you don's show that a significant proportion of the body fragments you are talking about did not come from victims in the planes or crash floors that were shredded by the crashes.


So to make progress here, please acknowledge clearly and verbosely, in your own words, that you now understand that >200 were affected by the plance crashes, many of which, cerainly >100, would have been shredded to pieces in the course of the plane crashes, before the collapse even started.

 

[CORed]

Thanks for the reply. To be precise, I'm talking about the stuff that landed 100-200m away from the building. So the stuff that you see flying in the air, not something you say was under the footprint of the building. Also we all can see how far a squib blows something. maybe 10m, max 20m.

So please give me a simple answer to a simple question:
1. body part landed 200m away - how was it crushed?
2. Did air current blow it so far?
3. how many floor collapses did it take to turn a body into small pieces, and how was it possible that the body stayed inside the footprint for some time to get pinned by the collapsing floors, but some how suddenly accelerated to +50mph to reach 200m distance from the towers?

You had irregularly-shaped falling objects running into the intact part of the structure. Is it really that difficult for you to figure out how some pieces might bounce off with a horizontal component? Or that those that do might hit other falling objects (including bodies, or parts thereof), and knock them off the vertical? I'm not quite sure how to explain simple things to somebody who has so little comprehension of how things work in the real world.

 

[CORed]

I think you have been several times told, and you ignored several times, that plane crashes rip people to shreds. Could you please acknowledge in a full sentence that you understand this? Several floor in both towers contained the shredded parts of certainly over 100 victims before the collapses even began. So there isn't even any need to explain who the collapses shred bodies, unless you can show that a significant proportion of the bits of human remains found at considerable dinstances were from victims above the crash zones.

With that in mind (and don't you dare responding to this post without acknowledging the >100 bodies shredded by the plane crashes!!!!), here are my answers:

1. Plane crashes
2. Yes. The visible parts of the squibs is from dust. Dust, due to its much higher surface-to-mass ratio, gets decelerated by air friction much sooner than larger parts such as body parts or concrete crumbles. It wasn't just body fragments that landed on those roofs in the vicinity.
3. Irrelevant, as long as you don's show that a significant proportion of the body fragments you are talking about did not come from victims in the planes or crash floors that were shredded by the crashes.


So to make progress here, please acknowledge clearly and verbosely, in your own words, that you now understand that >200 were affected by the plance crashes, many of which, cerainly >100, would have been shredded to pieces in the course of the plane crashes, before the collapse even started.

I don't really disagree with you, as the plane crashes likely do account for some, if not, all of the body parts that ended up some distance from the building, but even if the collapse was initiated by nanothermite cutters cleverly set off in the same floor that was hit by the holographic plane simulation (yeah, right), I think you can account for stuff, including body parts, falling well outside the footprint of the building as simply due gravitational collapse, i.e. to falling objects bouncing around. I think of the collapses of the towers as something akin to a vertical rockslide. If you've ever seen a rockslide, or even an individual rock bouncing down a steep hillside, you know that those rocks can take some pretty wild bounces (and tend to break up into smaller pieces on the way down). This is, no doubt, an imperfect analogy, and not a rigorous mathematical model, but I think it's not too far off the mark.

 

[carlitos]

some how suddenly accelerated to +50mph to reach 200m distance from the towers?

Explosives make air move at 500mph or more, not 50mph. That's how they work.

 

[beachnut]

E=mgh, the energy available; not known by 911 Truth

Thanks for the reply. To be precise, I'm talking about the stuff that landed 100-200m away from the building. So the stuff that you see flying in the air, not something you say was under the footprint of the building. Also we all can see how far a squib blows something. maybe 10m, max 20m.

So please give me a simple answer to a simple question:
1. body part landed 200m away - how was it crushed?
2. Did air current blow it so far?
3. how many floor collapses did it take to turn a body into small pieces, and how was it possible that the body stayed inside the footprint for some time to get pinned by the collapsing floors, but some how suddenly accelerated to +50mph to reach 200m distance from the towers?

Proof physics is not used by 911 truth. Why can't 911 truth do E=mgh? Why? Anti-science?

There is enough energy in the WTC collapse to destroy 26,000 bodies into tiny pieces.

The energy released on 911 in each tower was enough to spread debris as seen. It is physics.

You have to prove physics can't do it, and you can't do the physics to save your CD lie, your CD fantasy.

 

[Jbui]

I think you have been several times told, and you ignored several times, that plane crashes rip people to shreds. Could you please acknowledge in a full sentence that you understand this? Several floor in both towers contained the shredded parts of certainly over 100 victims before the collapses even began. So there isn't even any need to explain who the collapses shred bodies, unless you can show that a significant proportion of the bits of human remains found at considerable dinstances were from victims above the crash zones.

With that in mind (and don't you dare responding to this post without acknowledging the >100 bodies shredded by the plane crashes!!!!), here are my answers:

1. Plane crashes
2. Yes. The visible parts of the squibs is from dust. Dust, due to its much higher surface-to-mass ratio, gets decelerated by air friction much sooner than larger parts such as body parts or concrete crumbles. It wasn't just body fragments that landed on those roofs in the vicinity.
3. Irrelevant, as long as you don's show that a significant proportion of the body fragments you are talking about did not come from victims in the planes or crash floors that were shredded by the crashes.


So to make progress here, please acknowledge clearly and verbosely, in your own words, that you now understand that >200 were affected by the plance crashes, many of which, cerainly >100, would have been shredded to pieces in the course of the plane crashes, before the collapse even started.

I acknowlede this very well. I have been sitting on this subject for years, until I came across that map of body parts. The bodies in the planes suffered a lot of damage, and some pieces might have flown out of the building with the fireball, the magic passport and all those aeroplane parts. But these account only for the stuff flown in two directions. The body parts were spread evenly all around. Just like that dynamite vest guy that was described earlier.

Human body has two qualities that do not fit with the gravity explanation. It does not "spring" or "ping pong" when falling down. Nor does it crumble in tiny pieces like concrete when falling and hitting ground/other objects, but stays usually in one or couple big pieces(except the guts that are usually spilled) - like we saw in the gore 9/11 jumper pics. But it does blow up in all directions with explosives.

So here we have two imaginary theories, which are even more imaginary when combined, since the body would have to be in two place performing two imaginary theories at the same time(flying away and being ground up in the tower). On the other hand we have a simple, universally agreed phenomenon - the "dynamite vest" theory, which does exactly what has been observed. Isn't this a situation where people standing behind imaginary theories are usually called tin hats and people standing behind real life explanations are called the common sense people?

 

[CORed]

...
Isn't this a situation where people standing behind imaginary theories are usually called tin hats and people standing behind real life explanations are called the common sense people?

Yes. You have simply reversed the imaginary and the common sense, and all you have managed to do in post after post of JAQing off and argument from incredulity is demonstrate a truly astounding ignorance of how anything works in the real world.

 

[chrismohr]

Thanks for the reply. To be precise, I'm talking about the stuff that landed 100-200m away from the building. So the stuff that you see flying in the air, not something you say was under the footprint of the building. Also we all can see how far a squib blows something. maybe 10m, max 20m.

So please give me a simple answer to a simple question:
1. body part landed 200m away - how was it crushed?
2. Did air current blow it so far?
3. how many floor collapses did it take to turn a body into small pieces, and how was it possible that the body stayed inside the footprint for some time to get pinned by the collapsing floors, but some how suddenly accelerated to +50mph to reach 200m distance from the towers?

For personal reasons, the body parts of loved ones are not something I choose to debate or discuss very extensively. Others seem to be handling your questions. Thank you.

 

[beachnut]

No physics, no understanding.

I acknowlede this very well. I have been sitting on this subject for years, until I came across that map of body parts. The bodies in the planes suffered a lot of damage, and some pieces might have flown out of the building with the fireball, the magic passport and all those aeroplane parts. But these account only for the stuff flown in two directions. The body parts were spread evenly all around. Just like that dynamite vest guy that was described earlier.

There were no explosives on 911. You like fantasy, and can't do physics.

When you say magic passport, you reinforce your fantasy. There is no reason a passport can't survive an impact you can't imagine, because you refuse to get help with physics, and aircraft crash science. You make up fantasy because you can't grasp reality.

Human body has two qualities that do not fit with the gravity explanation. It does not "spring" or "ping pong" when falling down. Nor does it crumble in tiny pieces like concrete when falling and hitting ground/other objects, but stays usually in one or couple big pieces(except the guts that are usually spilled) - like we saw in the gore 9/11 jumper pics. But it does blow up in all directions with explosives.

You made up qualities of the human body?
E=mgh was released on 911. Why can't you do the math? I gave you the answer, you ignore it.

So here we have two imaginary theories, which are even more imaginary when combined, since the body would have to be in two place performing two imaginary theories at the same time(flying away and being ground up in the tower). On the other hand we have a simple, universally agreed phenomenon - the "dynamite vest" theory, which does exactly what has been observed. Isn't this a situation where people standing behind imaginary theories are usually called tin hats and people standing behind real life explanations are called the common sense people?

The tower's collapse ejected material as it collapsed. We have crushed and ejected. The kinetic energy during each tower collapse was equal in energy to 130 2,000 pound bombs. We have over 260 2,000 pound bombs worth of energy, and you can't comprehend how that did 911. It is your problem, and you refuse to do the math or get help from a physics teacher. You spread lies due to your own inexperience, and ignorance.

Why did you fail to take physics in high school? Are you in high school yet?


Are you a troll? If not answer the question. How much energy does it take to destroy a human body into tiny pieces? How many pounds of TNT? Is it 20 pounds? Why can't you do the math? Will 2,000,000 joules do it?

How much energy was availiable during the gravity collapse of the WTC towers besides the fires? Over 520,000 pounds of TNT, 576,000,000,000 joules. Why can't you do the simple math.

If you can't do the math, then you can't say anything on how bodies were destroyed don 911, you can't do the work. You get an F, Déjà vu wrt science.

 

[LSSBB]

I acknowlede this very well. I have been sitting on this subject for years, until I came across that map of body parts. The bodies in the planes suffered a lot of damage, and some pieces might have flown out of the building with the fireball, the magic passport and all those aeroplane parts. But these account only for the stuff flown in two directions. The body parts were spread evenly all around. Just like that dynamite vest guy that was described earlier.

Human body has two qualities that do not fit with the gravity explanation. It does not "spring" or "ping pong" when falling down. Nor does it crumble in tiny pieces like concrete when falling and hitting ground/other objects, but stays usually in one or couple big pieces(except the guts that are usually spilled) - like we saw in the gore 9/11 jumper pics. But it does blow up in all directions with explosives.

So here we have two imaginary theories, which are even more imaginary when combined, since the body would have to be in two place performing two imaginary theories at the same time(flying away and being ground up in the tower). On the other hand we have a simple, universally agreed phenomenon - the "dynamite vest" theory, which does exactly what has been observed. Isn't this a situation where people standing behind imaginary theories are usually called tin hats and people standing behind real life explanations are called the common sense people?

If you had read through the thread I provided a link to you earlier you would see some explanations of the actual effect of explosives on bodies. Especially you should concentrate on the effect of explosives on a body when the explosives are not adjacent to the body. The effects are much less than when the explosives are adjacent and there is a specific kind of trauma effect on the body called barotrauma.

Just remember, this is not Hollywood. This is real life and those were real people.

 

[Jbui]

If you had read through the thread I provided a link to you earlier you would see some explanations of the actual effect of explosives on bodies. Especially you should concentrate on the effect of explosives on a body when the explosives are not adjacent to the body. The effects are much less than when the explosives are adjacent and there is a specific kind of trauma effect on the body called barotrauma.

Just remember, this is not Hollywood. This is real life and those were real people.

I'm trying to keep this simple, but as I stated long time ago, It's unlikely that the shredding of bodies was due only to blast trauma, since most of the people were not next to an explosive, but rather to molten metal, pulverzed concrete, etc flying with the blast wave which worked like a shotgun blast.

 

[Jbui]

There were no explosives on 911. You like fantasy, and can't do physics.

When you say magic passport, you reinforce your fantasy. There is no reason a passport can't survive an impact you can't imagine, because you refuse to get help with physics, and aircraft crash science. You make up fantasy because you can't grasp reality.


You made up qualities of the human body?
E=mgh was released on 911. Why can't you do the math? I gave you the answer, you ignore it.


The tower's collapse ejected material as it collapsed. We have crushed and ejected. The kinetic energy during each tower collapse was equal in energy to 130 2,000 pound bombs. We have over 260 2,000 pound bombs worth of energy, and you can't comprehend how that did 911. It is your problem, and you refuse to do the math or get help from a physics teacher. You spread lies due to your own inexperience, and ignorance.

Why did you fail to take physics in high school? Are you in high school yet?


Are you a troll? If not answer the question. How much energy does it take to destroy a human body into tiny pieces? How many pounds of TNT? Is it 20 pounds? Why can't you do the math? Will 2,000,000 joules do it?

How much energy was availiable during the gravity collapse of the WTC towers besides the fires? Over 520,000 pounds of TNT, 576,000,000,000 joules. Why can't you do the simple math.

If you can't do the math, then you can't say anything on how bodies were destroyed don 911, you can't do the work. You get an F, Déjà vu wrt science.

Beachnut, about your physics: imagine tilting wtc sideways. Then accelerate it with 0,7g for 10 seconds. Tere goes 70 % of your e=mgh. Then pulverize the concrete. That is not possible if you used all the potential energy of the building - concrete does not pulverize more than c. 10% from ground impact -it crumbles to small/big pieces, but not to dust, more than about 10%. Look it up from any gravitational destruction of concrete.

Then try to take down the steel super structure wit gravity. Even with pre weakening, this would take at least 66% of the energy, where bottom 1/3 would need to be exploded, and after that there would be no acceleration, just crushing with constant speed.

...and then you need the power to shoot the building to 200m radius. You have no energy left and no energy working sideways.

In real life there is no gravity driven examples for phenomenon seen with 9/11, even for small parts of it, but plenty of examples for same stuff done with explosives.