The Australian "custody sisters"

[joesixpack]

Pretty dodgy fathers rights website you linked to.

Do you have a reason for that assertion? They are, in fact, a very reputable and principled organization.

 

[joesixpack]

No, it certainly does not try to hide its bias.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Doz5w2W-jAY

That's you proof of bias? The organization has gone to bat for same sex partners and mothers as well. They're hardly a reactionary anti-feminist organization

I suppose it illustrates your uninformed "mothers-only" orientation that you would see an organization like this as "biased" or inherently sexist.

 

[smartcooky]

Really? You would let a couple of disgusting old war hogs partly raise your girls?............ that's great parenting. Actually it's terrible... can't believe you would let a disgusting old car thief raise your kids... terrible. That's child abuse.

Again you casting your biased personal judgements on the mother and her parents.

 

[smartcooky]

So if your kids got kidnapped by a complete stranger, and by the time you found them, they had been turned against you and didn't want to go back, you'd just drop charges and leave them be?

Because there really aren't any other ways to resolve that than going to court and involving the police.

Errm, the mother is a complete stranger now?

 

[smartcooky]

This.

To hear some of the posters on here, they were all basically gang raped by the police.

I see toddlers freak out like that all the time.

Toddlers freak out because they have had their toys taken away, or can't have what they want from the lolly bar in a supermarket

These girls freaked out because they were being physically dragged away from their mother to go live in the foreign country where they realise that they will never be allowed to see their mother again.

You don't see the difference? Really?

 

[Dr. Keith]

Again you casting your biased personal judgements on the mother and her parents.

Yes, the facts in this case have a strong bias against the mother and her kin.

 

[joesixpack]

Toddlers freak out because they have had their toys taken away, or can't have what they want from the lolly bar in a supermarket

These girls freaked out because they were being physically dragged away from their mother to go live in the foreign country where they realise that they will never be allowed to see their mother again.

You don't see the difference? Really?

No, they freaked out because they were told to freak out by their mother, who had arranged for the press to be there to cover it.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Again you casting your biased personal judgements on the mother and her parents.

You don't give the legal system any credit ever do you? Read what the judge said about her. She seems to be a pretty bad mother to put her kids through this.

 

[smartcooky]

So if it were say, a violent criminal instead of girls in the middle of a custody dispute, you would be of the same opinion?

No, of course not

That report also proffered the factual observation that the three eldest children expressed views that they wanted to continue to live in Australia and to go back to Italy for holidays to visit their father and for him to visit them for holidays in Australia. Of note though, was that expert’s report that the youngest child had stated a preference for returning home to Italy to live because she liked the place where they lived in the Tuscan countryside and the activities she used to do with her father and friends. Quite remarkably, in my view, she did not repeat that same preference to the Family Consultant when interviewed only a few weeks later, after the mother had the report of the psychologist in her possession.

The fact that the youngest child could go from stating in May last year that she wanted to go home to Italy to her home in the Tuscan countryside to now asserting that “Italy’s a scary place. I don’t feel comfortable” and writing that she would stab herself if she was sent back to Italy, when she has not been back to Italy in the meantime, causes me to conclude that she has probably been subjected to considerable influence by persons close to her. That could have been her mother, or her older sisters, or other members of her extended maternal family. It does not really matter who. Having regard to the sorts of things the maternal great-grandmother was saying to and in the presence of the children, even in the company of police, I am satisfied that little restraint in respect of these matters is likely to have been demonstrated around these children and that this has impacted upon them in significant ways.

Oh please, stop the world!!! A child changed their mind. Well, isn't that a turn up for the books eh? Who would have expected that a child could actually change their mind? Whatever is the world coming to?

The reality is that she is a very young child. While her older sisters were likely thinking about how much they enjoyed living in Australia, she would have been thinking about her favourite toys back in Italy!

And don't get me started on the argument from authority you've got there as well...

So I base my argument on first hand experience. Whats wrong with that? Should I ignore my own experiences just for your benefit?

Every time you debate, you argue from you own experiences.

 

[smartcooky]

No, they freaked out because they were told to freak out by their mother, who had arranged for the press to be there to cover it.

So what you are saying is that they really, secretly wanted to go to Italy, but just put on a show to make their mother happy so that she would still love them and wouldn't feel betrayed?

Oh, please spare me. You really beleive that?

So, how do you reconcile that with the scene at the Father's house in Italy? Mum's not around to influence the press now, the two girls made it clear that they didn't want to be there.

NOTE:Only two girls because the father has split his girls up. Divide and conquer I guess.

 

[banquetbear]

So what you are saying is that they really, secretly wanted to go to Italy, but just put on a show to make their mother happy so that she would still love them and wouldn't feel betrayed?

Oh, please spare me. You really beleive that?

So, how do you reconcile that with the scene at the Father's house in Italy? Mum's not around to influence the press now, the two girls made it clear that they didn't want to be there.

NOTE:Only two girls because the father has split his girls up. Divide and conquer I guess.

...out of interest: is every reply in this thread going to ignore the substance of the post you are replying to and argue a strawman?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

So if it were say, a violent criminal instead of girls in the middle of a custody dispute, you would be of the same opinion?

So if your kids got kidnapped by a complete stranger, and by the time you found them, they had been turned against you and didn't want to go back, you'd just drop charges and leave them be?

Anyone can play at this game.

"So, if the kids were being spirited off to a life as sex workers in a foreign brothel, instead of being returned to their father, would you still support the actions of the police?"

Or...

"If the police had pulled out their nightsticks and beaten the girls to a pulp instead of merely dragging them into custody, would you still support their actions?"

Or...

"What if the military had shown up and flattened the entire house with a tank? Would you support that too?"

 

[banquetbear]

Anyone can play at this game.

...have you read this thread? Everyone is playing this game.

 

[kerikiwi]

Errm, the mother is a complete stranger now?

Your argument is that because the girls now say they want to stay with their mother, they should.
If they had been abducted by a stranger and when found say they now want to stay with the stranger, why should they be torn away?
How are the two final results different?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Your argument is that because the girls now say they want to stay with their mother, they should.
If they had been abducted by a stranger and when found say they now want to stay with the stranger, why should they be torn away?
How are the two final results different?

Indeed, if the girls had been carried off by dingoes and were later found in a dingo lair, and insisted that they were now dingo pups, and even introduced the police to their new dingo parents, thereby requiring the police to shoot every dingo in sight and inject the kids with Thorazine before carting them off to an asylum, how would the two final results be different?

 

[Caper]

Again you casting your biased personal judgements on the mother and her parents.

Really? Is it only my opinion she stole a car? Or did she steal a car (the grandmother). She tried to falsely accuse the father of being a pedophile. Is that true or only my opinion?

 

[Caper]

And the other point that has to be made here....

... and this is a point that the members here in favor of parental kidnappers don't get.... and one reason I'm glad it's in the media.

This tactic... parental kidnapping can never be allowed to work. Parental kidnapping can never be a successful tactic in gaining custody in a civilized society.

A few posters on this board want parental kidnapping to be a successful method of gaining custody, without ever thinking of the damage that can be done in future custody cases.

 

[smartcooky]

Your argument is that because the girls now say they want to stay with their mother, they should.
If they had been abducted by a stranger and when found say they now want to stay with the stranger, why should they be torn away?
How are the two final results different?

Errm the mother is their mother, and the stranger isn't?

 

[smartcooky]

...out of interest: is every reply in this thread going to ignore the substance of the post you are replying to and argue a strawman?

A strawman is often the best way to counter an argument that is itself a strawman!

 

[ponderingturtle]

Errm the mother is their mother, and the stranger isn't?

But that is then an issue of courts and rights and not what the kids want then. It would not be suprising to see kidnapped people putting up this kind of fight.