Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Chris Haynes]

Three lads - 13, 11 and 9 - I believe I may have some qualification in that area. And all vaccinated.

Mine are 18, 22 and 24. One has spent more than enough times in hospitals. As a toddler it included a 911 call for seizures caused by dehydration due to a now vaccine preventable illness. That was his second trip to the hospital by ambulance out of a total of four.

So, I really want to Mr. Moore to answer my questions. What papers published in the 1970s and 1980s show an increase in autism after the MMR vaccine was introduced in the USA in 1971?

Surely Wakefield had some evidence to tell parents to get single vaccines at the press release for his 1998 Lancet paper. Even though there was not single mumps vaccine approved for use in the UK.

 

[LSSBB]

My criteria for parenting doesn't include referring to them as "a kid."

Mine does, and I'm proud of how they've turned out.

 

[dafydd]

Three lads - 13, 11 and 9 - I believe I may have some qualification in that area. And all vaccinated.

Two daughters, 34 and 24. Wonderful people, both vaccinated. Two grandsons, 5 and one month. Oldest getting his vaccines, the other too young yet.

 

[dafydd]

Clayton,
You've previously posted that you have raised children. You've never referred to them as your kids? My children are grown, but I often refer to them as my kids. My friends routinely refer to their children as their kids. My dad, when I was in my thirties, would call up and say, "Hey kid!"

I guess my point is that you must come from a very different cultural background or I am remembering your post on your children wrong. No other point.

No. He's just waffling around to avoid answering the autism/vaccination proof question. Diversionary tactics.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Three lads - 13, 11 and 9 - I believe I may have some qualification in that area. And all vaccinated.

You should read up on the we can't figure out what caused the GWS. Especially the part where it mentions many of the GWS victims were never even deployed to the Gulf area. Then read about the horrors servicemen have suffered after receiving anthrax vaccine shots.


Then read this gem.

Feds To Test Anthrax Shot on Kids: U.S. panel backs anthrax experiments on children - See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2...nthrax-vaccine-children/#sthash.zoreAb6h.dpuf

William Campbell Douglass II, MD

November 28, 2011

William C. Douglass Jr, MD

It’s the biggest medical scandal in U.S. history… and it hasn’t even happened yet!

The feds are getting ready to pump children and possibly babies full of the anthrax vaccine — despite the fact that this same vaccine has already been linked to nerve damage, autoimmune disorders and even DEATH in adults.

What kind of government/medical community would even think of doing that?

 

[pakeha]

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm#mmrv

Isn't autism brain damage?

MMR seems to have the most side effects.

No it's not. At least, not post-natal brain damage.
Didn't you understand the possible relation between pregnant women coming down with flu and autism?

Many parents of children who became autistic along with severe bowel disorders noticed it soon after their child got a MMR jab. Doesn't that mean something?

Not really.
Could you post up the figures on severe bowel disorders, please?

Quite often.


Pathetically, in a short period of time relative to the over 30 year autism "epidemic" of 1 1/2 year old toddlers, the cause of autism has gone from we can't figure it out to the year or so old we know it's genetic and every child has it. Some just worse than others.
Two other alleged causes, old fathers and parents with above average intelligence, are worthy.

I get the impression you're really struggling with the idea autism research is on-going, but we can cross vaxx off the list of possible causes.
What I don't get is the reason for that.

 

[Dcdrac]

The reason is he needs vaccines to be on the list is to support his fantasy that vaccines are a bad thing

 

[zooterkin]

You should read up on the we can't figure out what caused the GWS. Especially the part where it mentions many of the GWS victims were never even deployed to the Gulf area. Then read about the horrors servicemen have suffered after receiving anthrax vaccine shots.


Then read this gem.

Feds To Test Anthrax Shot on Kids: U.S. panel backs anthrax experiments on children - See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2...nthrax-vaccine-children/#sthash.zoreAb6h.dpuf



What kind of government/medical community would even think of doing that?

This has what to do with vaccines causing autism, exactly?

 

[Estellea]

You should read up on the we can't figure out what caused the GWS. Especially the part where it mentions many of the GWS victims were never even deployed to the Gulf area. Then read about the horrors servicemen have suffered after receiving anthrax vaccine shots.


Then read this gem.

Feds To Test Anthrax Shot on Kids: U.S. panel backs anthrax experiments on children - See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2...nthrax-vaccine-children/#sthash.zoreAb6h.dpuf



What kind of government/medical community would even think of doing that?

I'll echo the question, what does this have to do with autism and vaccines? Furthermore, the above was a proposal, it isn't a foregone conclusion that it will be tested and in fact has a lot of opposition by some heavy-hitters, one of them Dr. Paul Offit.

Este

 

[dafydd]

Clayton, when are you going to get round to presenting some real, peer reviewed evidence for a link between autism and vaccination instead of crap from the net?

 

[crhkrebs]

Quite often

Hmmm.....

By "evidence" I mean present a citation towards some research that backs up your claim that the MMR vaccine causes autism.

Since you state that you actually have done so "quite often", please indicate where you have done so by supplying the appropriate entry numbers. I don't recall seeing any evidence at all.

Just to be helpful, your confusion between causation and correlation when it comes to the timing of the diagnosis of autism and the delivery of the MMR vaccine does not constitute evidence.

So once again, where is the evidence showing that the MMR vaccine causes autism?

 

[Border Reiver]

You should read up on the we can't figure out what caused the GWS. Especially the part where it mentions many of the GWS victims were never even deployed to the Gulf area. Then read about the horrors servicemen have suffered after receiving anthrax vaccine shots.

And this is related to the MMR shots my boys recieved how?

Then read this gem.

Feds To Test Anthrax Shot on Kids: U.S. panel backs anthrax experiments on children - See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2...nthrax-vaccine-children/#sthash.zoreAb6h.dpuf

Done

What kind of government/medical community would even think of doing that?

The kind who look to have a defense ready in the event it is needed? Those bastards! Who do they think they are looking for a means of defense against a horribly dangerous disease?

 

[Chris Haynes]

...

What kind of government/medical community would even think of doing that?

What kind of person refuses to answer direct questions?

Clayton, when are you going to get round to presenting some real, peer reviewed evidence for a link between autism and vaccination instead of crap from the net?

I am still waiting for those studies showing an increase of autism/bowel issues that are from the 1970s and 1980s, which is after the USA introduced the MMR vaccine in 1971.

That would be a way to letting us know how Wakefield came up with his hypothesis, instead of the way revealed by Brian Deer: he was paid by a lawyer to show there was something with the MMR vaccine.

Then, perhaps, Mr. Moore, can explain clearly which, out of at least four versions, MMR vaccine the Lancet study was about. Was it one with or without the Urable mumps strain? Why was there an American child who got a different type of MMR vaccine?

And why did he suggest parents get single vaccines, when the UK had never approved of a single mumps vaccine? Which caused certain clinics to illegally import a single Urabe vaccine, or more recently claim to have single jabs but provide no mumps vaccine?

 

[LSSBB]

No. He's just waffling around to avoid answering the autism/vaccination proof question. Diversionary tactics.

That's pretty much what I'm figuring. Same kind of tactics used extensively on the Holocaust Denial thread, go figure...

 

[dafydd]

That's pretty much what I'm figuring. Same kind of tactics used extensively on the Holocaust Denial thread, go figure...

Conspiracy TheoryLand and Holocaust Denialville are evidence free zones.

 

[jdc324]

You should read up on the we can't figure out what caused the GWS. Especially the part where it mentions many of the GWS victims were never even deployed to the Gulf area. Then read about the horrors servicemen have suffered after receiving anthrax vaccine shots.

*bzzt* Repetition.

We've done this before Clayton, in this very thread. With evidence and everything. Evidence that was rather inconvenient for you as it contradicted what you were arguing. I don't recall you addressing this inconvenient evidence at the time. Perhaps you'd now like to deal with the text and links below?

Squalene:

Nearly a decade ago, squalene was supposed to be the experimental anthrax vaccine ingredient that caused the onset of Persian Gulf War syndrome in many veterans, since antibodies to squalene were detected in the blood of most patients affected by this syndrome. This evidence has raised a widespread concern about the safety of squalene containing adjuvants (especially MF59) of influenza vaccines. Nevertheless, further clinical evidence clearly suggested that squalene is poorly immunogenic, that low titres of antibodies to squalene can be also detected in sera from healthy individuals, and that neither the presence of anti-squalene antibodies nor their titre is significantly increased by immunization with vaccines containing squalene (or MF59) as an adjuvant.

Anthrax vaccine:

Variations in the frequency or severity (as judged by hospitalization and/or loss of duty) of reported AEs did not suggest a significant problem with (1) a particular lot of AVA, (2) recurrent AEs after multiple doses or (3) vaccination of persons with a concomitant illness or those given other vaccines or medications.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12062677

17 lots of Anthrax Vaccine Adsorbed administered to members of the US Armed Forces. No squalene has been detected in any lot. The results of these analyses provide direct evidence for the absence of squalene as an ingredient or a manufacturing contaminant in Anthrax Vaccine Adsorbed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16762524

The overall results of this investigation provide direct evidence for the absence of squalene in nearly all of anthrax vaccine preparations tested.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19379786

We found no association between squalene antibody status and chronic multisymptom illness (p=0.465). The etiology of Gulf War syndrome remains unknown, but should not include squalene antibody status.

 

[r-j]

This has what to do with vaccines causing autism, exactly?

I think you are being absurd, and avoiding the issue. It's obvious, and refusing to concede the point makes you look bad.

Then read this gem.

Feds To Test Anthrax Shot on Kids: U.S. panel backs anthrax experiments on children - See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2...nthrax-vaccine-children/#sthash.zoreAb6h.dpuf
What kind of government/medical community would even think of doing that?

If that is true, it makes the people in charge look insane. That you are not outraged just supports the original premise that started this offshoot thread.

Are there any so called "conspiracy theories" that you do believe in?

The idea, always being put forth, is there are no conspiracies. Which is impossible of course

Split from the "what do you guys believe?" thread here.

Posted By: LashL

The proof of the pudding that there are conspiracies at high levels of society is media's insistence that there are NONE.

It's not just the media. Most otherwise rational people have bought that myth, so much that even when a huge conspiracy is exposed, they still insist there never was one. I think of it as a conspiracy of ignorance.

Let's see. Big pharma and the mainstream media insist vaccines are absolutely safe but close to NONE of the vaccines are tested with a control group. They have convinced much of the American public that questioning the safety of vaccines is criminal.

While that is not completely true, much of it is. You can see it at work in this thread. The very idea that anything bad could even happen, in regards to vaccines, is a pernicious myth. Zealously defended, to the point where the insane suggestion regarding Anthrax is hand waved away, as if it doesn't even matter.

Yet commercial after commercial airs up front and personal that if you've taken DRUG X, Y, or Z contact my law firm. Now you know those drugs, I think ZOLOFT is the star of the newer ripe for litigation drugs, were supposed to be tested with a control group! What happened.

It's not just drugs, you see other things constantly o the TV about serious screw ups. Things that shouldn't have ever happened if the mythical testing was done. Which it never is.

And the media pretty much crucifies anyone who dares suggest a link between autism and vaccines. Why would the media trust and speak out for an industry/community with such a poor drug testing track record?

That one is simple. The same people own the media that own the drug companies.

No conspiracy needed to understand that.

But about that Anthrax

 

[r-j]

When I hear somebody claim "we can't figure out what caused it" I know it means somebody caused it. There are few mysteries in medicine at our level of technology. When a new disease or condition or malady pops up out of thin air, unlike anything known in the history of medicine, you can be sure it a human caused disease.

The conspiracy is the absolute insistence that it is a mystery. Like some new virus or bacteria just pops up like magic, for the first time in human history.

That is bullcraps of the highest order. The big conspiracy seems to be that we are so primitive we can't figure out the cause of something new.

 

[Reality Check]

Many parents of children who became autistic along with severe bowel disorders noticed it soon after their child got a MMR jab. Doesn't that mean something?

Ohhhhh, Clayton Moore, easy question, easy answer: No !
Your unsupported rumor about "many parents" does not mean anything.
A parent noticing the coincidence that autism is capable of being diagnosed at about the same time that the MMR jab is given does not mean anything.
There is no known link between the MMR vaccine and autism or even "severe bowel disorders".

 

[jdc324]

The very idea that anything bad could even happen, in regards to vaccines, is a pernicious myth. Zealously defended, to the point where the insane suggestion regarding Anthrax is hand waved away, as if it doesn't even matter.

I'm sorry, but it is not at all clear to me what you are arguing here r-j. Could you perhaps rephrase your argument?

Are you suggesting that people here deny that there can be adverse effects of vaccination? If so, I think you'll find that's a straw man.

Are you suggesting that the alleged link between anthrax vaccines and GWS has been hand-waved away? If so, I wonder if you may have missed the research regarding the supposed link that has been posted in this thread.