Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

[squealpiggy]

Did anybody else notice that the women are standing on the sidelines filming (clearly terrified of this guy), while the men have been sent in to do the actual poster removal? That's real equality, ladies!

At any point the particle could decay without any warning and unleash Schrodinger's rape all over.

The origins of Creepy Bitter Girl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy0gryjLIsU

Enjoy.

Her public speaking was painful to watch. Her weird arm movements. Reminded me of Stan from Monkey Island.

Preventing harmful slurs and arguments isn't tone policing. Tone policing is the idea that passionate or angry responses are less valid than flat responses.

I've highlighted the issue with this argument. Who gets to define what constitutes a harmful slur? At A+ it's whoever has the privilege of being an inner circle member. They get to declare the word "stupid" to be a "harmful slur" before telling somebody that the should be sexually assaulted with a dead animal, or that they should rule 10 off and die.

 

[Kid Eager]

I didn't know what tone policing was, so I looked it up and found 3 or 4 websites that tried to explain it (or should that be "tonesplain" it)? Anyhow, I'm now more confused.

It seems to boil down to:
Person A: "There's no need to be rude"
Person B: "I've got every right to be angry, so shut the ****(*** up!"

 

[Kid Eager]

oops, duplicate. Curse you, interwebz

 

[Mr. Scott]

If they're [A+ Forumites] reading this thread, one of them [piegasm] might take my pointing out that a Ferenghi is a Jewish stereotype to heart and actually call out that mod on his avatar.

You made a difference. He/she changed it to Capt. Kathryn Janeway.

 

[recursive prophet]

I defy anyone to point out which stated rules I actually transgressed, and how.

You're joking, right? Rules are for fools in schools, and tools. By posting here you're a marked man there. Did you see the post I was banned for a month for making? Of course that was changed to a permanent ban later based on comments I've made here. Big Sister is watching us bro. And they've run out of soft targets. You will soon get the "What is it you want here" question, and they will pile on whenever you post. Remember, A+ is NOT a debate forum. I have often seen people called out on the charge of debating.

 

[d4m10n]

You're joking, right? Rules are for fools in schools, and tools. By posting here you're a marked man there.

Posting here? This place is a hotbed of civility compared to where I've been. Spend most of my time on an horrific practically unmoderated cyberspace called "Twitter"

 

[Mr. Scott]

Hijackers

Hijackers!

(note to mods: facts about Sasha are freely available on the Internet)

Forgive me for doing some pattern recognition, but after seeing the videos about Creepy BitterGrrl (Sasha Wiley-Shaw), I noticed hijacking that resembled Aplussers' hijacking of Atheism for their Social Justice endeavors. In one of the videos, they hijack an Occupy Vancouver meeting by blocking access to the site, being called out for hijacking, then getting themselves arrested.

Also, Vancouver, BC seems to be an epicenter of this energy. Ceepolk (Ms. "I don't care at all about the Athiest Community" and A+ forum moderator) is in Vancouver. I wonder if Sasha's minions are her students. She's apparently a High School teacher. They look about that age.

You know that aphorism, "If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail." Sasha was raped, so to her, every social issue is about, or analogous to, women being violated by men. Disagree with that, and you are either a rapist or defender of rapists.

Elevatorgate was perhaps what opened the Pandora Box of avenging rape victims.

I'm not OK with rape. I'm a victim, too. I got over it. But, these professional victims are disturbed, and will destroy movements they successfully hijack.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Also, Vancouver, BC seems to be an epicenter of this energy. Ceepolk (Ms. "I don't care at all about the Athiest Community" and A+ forum moderator) is in Vancouver.

???

I thought Ceepolk was in Calgary (or at least Alberta)?

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Just to let you know that the Reddit atheism+ (/r/atheismplus) crowd has finally noticed your thread and they are beside themselves with the fact that they cannot ban all dissent here too.

Note: It is a closed forum ANY attempt at dissent, no matter how mild or reasoned, will be banned.... seriously, they are are worse than /r/pyongyang

I don't do Reddit. Can you cross post anything here that is particularly indicative of their frustration?

 

[adamwho]

I would like to consider the history of the people and forums that have created this rift in the atheist/skeptic movement.

In the mid-late 90s there were only a handful of atheist boards with the biggest probably being Internet Infidels (Richard Carrier was one of the founders). Other boards, such as this one came into existence and started to gain traction. There seemed to be an explosion or boards around 2005.

The Infidels (now FRDB), like this board is lightly moderated and you can say what you want as long as it isn't a personal attack, that is, you can say an idea is stupid but not call a person stupid.

Around 2005 on IIDB (internet infidels) there was a major rift between the Accommodationists (secularists regardless of religious belief) and the Hardliners who saw all compromise as weakness. I think many of the A+ people came from this group of hardliners. (Carrier is the biggest name but there are several others)

This rift caused several boards to spin-off some of which had a culture of intolerance, aggressive positing behavior and immature biased moderation (TalkRational for example). All of which are common traits in the atheism+ forums and FtB.

Most of these "long-form" forums have declined and have been replaced by social media, news aggregators and blogs, which further reduce the sense of community and right/responsibility for good behavior toward fellow posters

I understand the RW came from this forum and I don't know this forums history well (despite having lurked here for over a decade). Is there anybody who can fill in some of the details?

***

My point is that this rift seems like a break down in civility sparked by histories of animosity across several boards over the last decade rather than on the social justice issues which I suspect most people align with generally.

Any thoughts?

 

[adamwho]

I don't do Reddit. Can you cross post anything here that is particularly indicative of their frustration?

Having only a few posts I cannot give you the link

But you have seen the issues before. Demonizing of Shermer, Groethe, Dawkins or anybody who disagrees with them.

This whole thread to them seems like a big strawman because they cannot fathom that people are not against atheism+ because of sexism. They still cling to the idea that everybody posting here is actually against social justice issues. They seem incapable of examining their own behavior, they see enemies everywhere and themselves as lone defenders against an irrational hoard.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Having only a few posts I cannot give you the link.

I decided to check it out myself.

You know you're making some kind of impact when the tears flow so freely. Let them cry all they want, we aren't going anywhere.

Apparently Waitwhatnow didn't read this thread.

 

[Doctor Plop]

???

I thought Ceepolk was in Calgary (or at least Alberta)?

Surely you meant Calvary.

 

[recursive prophet]

Posting here? This place is a hotbed of civility compared to where I've been. Spend most of my time on an horrific practically unmoderated cyberspace called "Twitter"

Wow. You are brave. I'm a TR survivor, but Twitter scares me. I have an account but have only used it a few times-just tweeting friends-and the more I hear about it makes me think I'll give than venue a pass.

I mentioned posting here not because any have really been uncivil but because I know some in the inner circle read this thread. And based on just my criticism here of how they operate, as I said they made my ban permanent. I'm afraid the A+ mod squad is a bit confused about the concept of site moderation. (and yes, I've even won awards in Britain for understatement. )

Isn't Setar a female? And here's a video you might find amusing. It's by one of the more sincere if misguided posters-I mean hell that's required to get along with the crew at A+-who goes by ApostateItsopA. Maybe I can get him to join the discussion here and we can explain how far off his analogy wrt elevatorgate is. Hard to do on YT. Apos loves stomping on straw opponents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbTkqq023nA

He is talented at doing YT videos. If tonality sells you instead of logic you might even find it convincing. This is old, but Apos is active at A+ and I hadn't heard it before I clicked it on his sig. He does make a valid point about Dawkins though. I do wish Richard had taken the Will Rogers approach on this BS. "Never let a good opportunity to shut up pass you by.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

I understand the RW came from this forum and I don't know this forums history well (despite having lurked here for over a decade). Is there anybody who can fill in some of the details?

Readers Digest as I recall:
- Joined the forum.
- Was inspired by our use of skepchick to co-opt the name and form an org.
- Gained a reputation a popular speaker, blogger and podcaster.
- Also gained a reputation as a party girl that didn't sit well with some of her fellow skepchicks (see rejection of "skepchick" appellation and bordello party threads).
- Was made a mod here, stepped down(?) and was suspended for having a sock puppet account "radial tyre".
- Came back off suspension and discovered her account reset to her mod status and abused those powers (except for banning Scrut, which was widely applauded).
- Was banned from the forum and continued her marketing elsewhere.

My point is that this rift seems like a break down in civility sparked by histories of animosity across several boards over the last decade rather than on the social justice issues which I suspect most people align with generally.

Any thoughts?

As a number of us have noted a number of times, the vast majority of skeptics/people advocating critical thinking (and while you know this, I just want to note it - JREF has always had that mission and is not an atheist organization) and atheists (and whatever crossover groups fall on that Venn diagram) have never heard of these groups, fewer are familiar with the big names involved and fewer still give a **** about them or what they have to say.

Personally I don't think the intercene fighting is due to old grudges or grievences across fora or social media, but that over time some people came to realize that others were a-holes, bullies and in a few cases borderline mentally ill. The reaction a lot of people who liked PZ have had to his antics over the last two years isn't because he posted something back in '08 they still take umbrage towards, it's because of what he's done, said and written over the past two years.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

You made a difference. He/she changed it to Capt. Kathryn Janeway.

Hooray! My favourite weird psychopath!

No, that's not sarcasm, Janeway is a very odd cookie and she's a psychopath. And she's my favourite Captain because of it. You wouldn't get Picard locking himself in his ready room for 4 months.

Still, back to the avatar, it does show, then, that s/he simply hadn't thought about the obvious and numerous parallels between the Ferenghi and Jewish stereotypes, and nobody else had noticed, which does rather make you wonder how much they're really tuned in to social justice.

I'd also say that Star Trek is an odd choice as a whole. Even The Next Generation often comes across as somewhat gung-ho xenophobic, as the mostly white, mostly American crew come across species which represent different non-American populations of Earth (Ferenghi being Jewish, Klingon being Feudal Japanese, and so on), and demonstrate how superior and more evolved they are.

I don't care, because I understand the storytelling techniques and metaphors involved, but I'd have thought that anyone as (over) sensitive to racism as those on that board appear to be would have a hard time enjoying something quite that xenophobic.

 

[adamwho]

The reaction a lot of people who liked PZ have had to his antics over the last two years isn't because he posted something back in '08 they still take umbrage towards, it's because of what he's done, said and written over the past two years.

I agree about the PZ case, I was thinking more of Carrier and some other posters. PZ seems late to the party and has believes that he can indulge all of his pent up angst online and not be penalized for it in real life.

***

I know that my theory about the rise and fall of internet forums, the splinting off of factions and how social media damages civility is not water tight... but I like the big picture over the skirmishes.

 

[jhunter1163]

Having only a few posts I cannot give you the link

You can post links after 15 posts. You can go to Humor and make a few junk posts there to boost your count.

 

[Mr. Scott]

???

I thought Ceepolk was in Calgary (or at least Alberta)?

You are right. She's in Alberta. OMFSM the Internet scares me. While googling to confirm her location, her phone number and map showing her home's exact street location popped up

 

[Mr. Scott]

I'd also say that Star Trek is an odd choice as a whole. Even The Next Generation often comes across as somewhat gung-ho xenophobic, as the mostly white, mostly American crew come across species which represent different non-American populations of Earth (Ferenghi being Jewish, Klingon being Feudal Japanese, and so on), and demonstrate how superior and more evolved they are.

I don't care, because I understand the storytelling techniques and metaphors involved, but I'd have thought that anyone as (over) sensitive to racism as those on that board appear to be would have a hard time enjoying something quite that xenophobic.

The SJ highlight of Star Trek is its multiracial crew. Its embarrassment is its repetition of the xenophobic colonial era tragedies. In so many ST episodes, Earthlings come upon defective alien societies, and we set them straight, analogous to white explorers in colonial days "discovering" alien civilizations and correcting their non-christian ways.