Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[PhantomWolf]

No, you don't need your opponents collaboration or permission to run away. You just do.

So now you are changing your mind to that it doesn't matter if they chase you?

As for the rest of your anecdote, it's as ridiculous as the rest. You are equating kids fighting with life-threatening street fights, and that's apples to oranges.

Yeah because the fights I got into at 17-18 would be nothing like the fight that 17-year old Trayvon would have been in.

 

[Megalodon]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/cri...conviction-and-acquittal-for-journalist-death

Apparently not a fight, just a sucker punch and robbery.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...th-coroner-finds/story-fnat79vb-1226525776916

Sucker-punch, not fight.

url]http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2012/12/03/3646244.htm[/url]

Hit and run with a car... not sure you're reading what you're posting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...punch-tells-inquest-It-was-self-defence..html

Closest to the mark, still a sucker-punch, not a fight. If you can't see the difference, again you should not call other people on their fighting experience.

 

[PhantomWolf]

So your position is that GZ didn't murder TM because the law is stupid?

Think about what you just said. The law is what determines if GZ murdered TM or not. If the law is "stupid" (and actually I do agree with you there, our self defence law is essentially like for like, so if he'd punched Trayvon and killed him, he'd get off, but gun vs fist, no) and it declares that what he did was not murder, then shouldn't that be the position that is taken?

 

[Megalodon]

So now you are changing your mind to that it doesn't matter if they chase you?

No mind changed, once you take off they are likely not to pursue, specially if you started it.

Yeah because the fights I got into at 17-18 would be nothing like the fight that 17-year old Trayvon would have been in.

No, because the fights you were in are remembered by you as being tougher, grittier and more threatening than they actually were. That's why anecdotes are useless.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Apparently not a fight, just a sucker punch and robbery.

Sucker-punch, not fight.

GZ describes being hit by a sucker punch, and then having his head bashed into concrete

Hit and run with a car... not sure you're reading what you're posting.

The article has two incidents in it, sometimes it helps to read the whole thing and not just the first half of the first sentence.

a 15-year-old who was punched at a Nobby's Beach party is fighting for his life in Gold Coast Hospital ICU.

Closest to the mark, still a sucker-punch, not a fight. If you can't see the difference, again you should not call other people on their fighting experience.

I honestly wasn't looking for a full scale fight, You were the one that added all the stipulations to try and limit the possible stories as much as possible. I was more interested in showing that teenagers were quite capable of killing someone with a punch and inflicting head injuries.

This is one that while sketchy in the details appears to be a fight rather then a single punch. It involves two teens, but they are both just 14.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lboys-aged-just-14-held-suspicion-murder.html

Seems that even girls have the ability to kill with punches to the head...

http://www.modernghana.com/news/223578/1/girl-20-dies-in-a-street-fight-over-a-mobile-phone.html

 

[PhantomWolf]

No mind changed, once you take off they are likely not to pursue, specially if you started it.

So if they decide to let you go.

No, because the fights you were in are remembered by you as being tougher, grittier and more threatening than they actually were. That's why anecdotes are useless.

Or perhaps since you weren't there when I was growing up you're talking out your lower orifice, but hey, perhaps you should try out for Randi's millions for your clairvoyance skills.

 

[Megalodon]

I honestly wasn't looking for a full scale fight, You were the one that added all the stipulations to try and limit the possible stories as much as possible. I was more interested in showing that teenagers were quite capable of killing someone with a punch and inflicting head injuries.

I never said it wasn't possible, I said it's less likely than being killed by lightning

If you need evidence

Now, either TM was a brutal attacker that the (bigger) man that chased him, confronted him and ultimately shot him didn't have a chance to defend against, or there are no offensive marks in TM hands...

Or you can fall back on your fantasies about your rough and tough youthful fights for your life, against other pimply street-fighters...

 

[PhantomWolf]

Even an 11-year old girl can inflict a punches capable of killing another girl.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/140489403.html?id=140489403

and another 18 punching and killing a 22 year old.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-of-david-cassai/story-e6frg6nf-1226547064079

 

[This is The End]

17, just a kid... I mistakenly referred to his age as 16, previously.

Basically you were right.

He had just turned 17 a couple weeks before he was killed.

 

[Megalodon]

So if they decide to let you go.

They don't have to decide anything... you have the initiative and the head start. Why you're insisting on defending a wrong statement is beyond me.

Or perhaps since you weren't there when I was growing up you're talking out your lower orifice, but hey, perhaps you should try out for Randi's millions for your clairvoyance skills.

"You don't know what it was like, man... YOU WEREN'T THERE!!!"

 

[Megalodon]

Even an 11-year old girl can inflict a punches capable of killing another girl.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/140489403.html?id=140489403

and another 18 punching and killing a 22 year old.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-of-david-cassai/story-e6frg6nf-1226547064079

Unless you can show me numbers otherwise, my statement stands. It's rarer than being killed by lightning.

 

[Megalodon]

Basically you were right.

He had just turned 17 a couple weeks before he was killed.

No, I was very much wrong... If he was 17 that's what he was...

 

[This is The End]

Even an 11-year old girl can inflict a punches capable of killing another girl.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/140489403.html?id=140489403

and another 18 punching and killing a 22 year old.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-of-david-cassai/story-e6frg6nf-1226547064079

Do you even know what you are doing?? You seriously think your links are going to prove something relative to this specific case?

Take, for instance, Z's own story that M supposedly punched him when Z reached for his pocket.

So according to what you are now doing, all I have to do is find links to previous cases where a person A was confronted by person B, alone, at night, after person B followed Person A for a considerable distance, person A asks person B what they want, and person B went for their pocket and pulled out a gun and killed, raped, or committed some other life threatening felony against person A.

(And I guarantee there are 99% more links to cases like that than there are to your "someone dies in a fist fight" links.)

Those links, according to what you are trying to do in this thread now, would be "proof" that M was sufficiently in fear of his life and had the right to punch Z when Z went for his pocket?

 

[This is The End]

No, I was very much wrong... If he was 17 that's what he was...

I meant you had the benefit of being within days, "basically" was a bad word.

Technically you were wrong.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I never said it wasn't possible, I said it's less likely than being killed by lightning

If you need evidence

The CDC lists approximately 5,000 deaths via assault in the US a year, unfortunately it doesn't separate them into assault with a weapon and without unless it's a gun. Considering that we have had a number of people killed a year from fights not involving weapons, and I can't recall the last one killed in a lightning strike, I would bet that more people die by a punch than by lightning.

the (bigger) man

Only by fat. GZ was shorter than Trayvon, and while weighing more, he was fat and out of shape while Trayvon was athletic.

that chased him

Totally unproven, in fact the 911 call, and Deedee's claims both indicate exactly the opposite.

confronted him

Again totally unproven. Deedee claims Trayvon confronted GZ.


As to the rest of your post, your condescending attitude is noted and pretty much invalidates anything you have to say.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Unless you can show me numbers otherwise, my statement stands. It's rarer than being killed by lightning.

No, if you want to claim it is rarer that lightning, it's up to you to prove that claim.

 

[Megalodon]

As to the rest of your post, your condescending attitude is noted and pretty much invalidates anything you have to say.

Look, if you want me to stop noticing the stupid crap you write, better stop writing stupid crap.

 

[This is The End]

Again totally unproven.

You're just nitpicking there.

If someone follows you, alone, in the middle of the night, for hundreds of yards, and then you ask them what in the world they want* I would say the confrontation is much closer to mutual.

*Remember, that is Z's own story. Reality may vary.

 

[Cylinder]

The CDC lists approximately 5,000 deaths via assault in the US a year, unfortunately it doesn't separate them into assault with a weapon and without unless it's a gun. Considering that we have had a number of people killed a year from fights not involving weapons, and I can't recall the last one killed in a lightning strike, I would bet that more people die by a punch than by lightning.

The FBI keeps those stats (which is another debate altogether.) Around 800 people are killed per year by personal weapons - hands fists feet, etc...

In 2011 there were 728 homicides by personal weapon, in 2010 there were 789, in 2009 there were 817, in 2008 there were 875, in 2007 there were 869. For comparison, there were 449 deaths attributed to lightning in the decade between 1998-2008.

 

[This is The End]

The FBI keeps those stats (which is another debate altogether.) Around 800 people are killed per year by personal weapons - hands fists feet, etc...

In 2011 there were 728 homicides by personal weapon, in 2010 there were 789, in 2009 there were 817, in 2008 there were 875, in 2007 there were 869. For comparison, there were 449 deaths attributed to lightning in the decade between 1998-2008.

You just admitted that your own link is a compilation of hands, feet, fists, etc.

But you forgot to include the footnote:

1 Pushed is included in personal weapons.

That's at least 4 things, not counting whatever "etc." is. Let us be generous and assume that fists is 1/4th of that number.

That's 200 per year. So it's a bit more than the 45 or so who die by lightning.

But it's still less than the number of people who get hit by lightning.

Only about 10% of people who are struck by lightning are killed, leaving 90% with various degrees of disability.

Dying by fists. It's more rare than getting hit by lighting.