Founder of Sea Shepherd Arrested in Germany

[NoahFence]

....making sure the hunting is sustainable, not for ceasing all together

I would like it to cease all together, but will accept sustainable hunting if I have to. Something's better than nothing.

BUT

We as a species don't have exactly have a record of that, do we? It's always see resource, obliterate resource, move to next one and leave previous one in ruin. We do it with plants, animals, minerals, whatever.

 

[Ryokan]

I don't know, quite a few animal and plant species have flourished under human hands.

But yes, in some areas, we don't have a good track record. But I believe the Norwegian authorites do anything they can to make our sea resources sustainable. It's how we, as a nation, make a living.

 

[theprestige]

Fine. They're dumb. I'm sold.

Slaughter the whole lot of 'em until they're extinct, or damn close to it, (because humans have a solid history of knowing when to stop) and then blame it on something besides humans. Watch the food chain crumble and clap! Yay! No more whale watches = less diesel fuel spent. Win/Win!

Dude, calm down.

You come to a skeptical discussion board with a really intense emotional argument about how magically special whales are, you're bound to get challenged on it.

Nobody (besides you) is saying that whales are dumb and should be hunted to extinction.

Instead, you're being asked to provide reasons for the claims you are making. If you can't, you don't have to turn around and take up the extreme opposite of your preferred position. Just like you don't have to post racist remarks about the Japanese.

Maybe you should consider taking a step back, examining why you believe the things you do about whales, and share with us some of the information and reasoning you used to arrive at your current beliefs.

I doubt anybody here is demanding scientific rigor from you in your opinions about Sea Shepherd and whale hunting. I know that am not at all scientifically rigorous in my wish to see Sea Shepherd swept from the seas like the pirates they are!

But if you're going to argue that whales should be preserved because they model some kind of ideal human family, you should at least be prepared to talk about what whale families are like, what you think human families could learn from them, and why you think it's important to learn from whale families specifically. Instead, you've lashed out in a huff when asked to talk specifically about your ideas. You are better than that.

 

[Ryokan]

But if you're going to argue that whales should be preserved because they model some kind of ideal human family, you should at least be prepared to talk about what whale families are like, what you think human families could learn from them, and why you think it's important to learn from whale families specifically.

Especially since a whale is not a whale. There are plenty of species of whales, and they're all different. Some are huge. Some are small. Some are solitary creatures. Some are pack animals. Some are predators. Some filter water for nutrients. Some are incredibly bright. Some are probably no better than cows.

ETA: And some of them are quite tasty....

 

[George 152]

Fine. They're dumb. I'm sold.

Slaughter the whole lot of 'em until they're extinct, or damn close to it, (because humans have a solid history of knowing when to stop) and then blame it on something besides humans. Watch the food chain crumble and clap! Yay! No more whale watches = less diesel fuel spent. Win/Win!

Krill have a right to life.
Whales blubber

 

[smartcooky]

I don't buy the intelligence or "family dynamic" argument at all. That is is just BS, but comparing whales with cows and pigs is a false analogy.

Cows and pigs are bred in captivity for food, and in the western world at least, are killed instantly and without suffering. They are also not a limited resource; world wide cattle populations are in the region of 1.5 billion animals, pigs in the region of one billion. Someone mentioned chickens earlier... well there are about 26 billion of those... hardly a population in danger of extinction, but still I eat only free range chicken and eggs, because I consider the living conditions of battery hens unacceptable and I don't want to be part of anything that promotes it. I love bacon, and pork (again I eat only free range) but if pigs were an endangered species, I would give up bacon and pork in a heartbeat.

Whales are a wild animals, in limited supply and are unnecessary as a food source. They are hunted using brutal and cruel techniques than inflict a protracted and excruciatingly painful death, despite the BS spin that the whale industry would try to have you believe.

Antarctic Blue whales used to number in the millions, but commercial hunting has reduced that to less than 1% of their original numbers, despite 40 years of protection. The West Pacific grey whale population is the most endangered in the world. Its on the edge of extinction with just over 100 left. DNA sampling has been used to estimate that humpback whales numbered around 1.5 million prior to the onset of commercial whaling in the 1800s. They currently number just 20,000 individuals.

The worst aspect of whaling though, is that it is all unnecessary. The world wide appetite for whale meat is in decline, IMO, because the public are beginning to understand the implications of commercial whaling. The Japanese have huge stocks of whale meat that they struggle to sell before it goes bad, yet they continue to hunt whales for meat.

It is criminal to hunt an endangered species towards extinction; it is worse than criminal to do so when you have no need

NOTE: Some species that have been hunted to extinction

the Dodo
the Moa
the thylacine
the passenger pigeon
the great auk
the quagga
the monk seal
the atlas bear
the Carolina parrot
the sea mink
the toolache wallaby
the bubal hartebeest

and the most tragic case of all, the stellars sea cow; a species of 25 foot long seal that was discovered by Alaskan settlers in 1741, and hunted to extinction by 1768 - just 27 years to wipe the entire population off the face of the planet.

Is there really a need to add to this list of shame?

 

[StankApe]

they couldn't adapt to humans, they died, life goes on.

this emotional attachment to animal life is amusing to me. I call it the "fuzzy factor" you don't see too many people raising hell about reptiles, bugs and other such creepy crawlies, but give them a cute face and a sad backstory and they will spend billions of dollars ramming their boats into the "offenders" at high speed, while blubbering incessantly about how much they care!

I think those sorts of people are hilariously retarded!!!

 

[NoahFence]

OK, if there's anything crystal clear here, it's that I lack the ability to be as articulate as smartcooky.

I dread going here but:

"What he said".

Nobody (besides you) is saying that whales are dumb and should be hunted to extinction.

No, they're not - but my point is that we'll do it anyway, if given the opportunity. That is, hunt them to extinction. It's what we do.

 

[NoahFence]

I call it the "fuzzy factor" you don't see too many people raising hell about reptiles, bugs and other such creepy crawlies,

How ironic.
The flagship of the Sea Shepherd fleet is the "Steve Irwin" - named for a man world renowned for his love of reptiles and conservation.

 

[StankApe]

Named for him because somebody gave them a bunch of money......

I see their ship is hard at work defending the rights of mojave rattlesnakes.....


I hope their ship is blown from the water on live TV, it would amuse me plenty

 

[NoahFence]

It doesn't matter in this context why it was named for him. The fact is he was a champion of "non fuzzy" animal conservation.

 

[philkensebben]

I don't buy the intelligence or "family dynamic" argument at all. That is is just BS, but comparing whales with cows and pigs is a false analogy.

We could compare them when intelligence or family dynamic was being discussed. Otherwise, population comparisons werent used.

 

[StankApe]

It doesn't matter in this context why it was named for him. The fact is he was a champion of "non fuzzy" animal conservation.

I'm not talking about HIM, I'm talking about avg weepy vegan weirdo whining about whales and pandas and dolphins.

when did being weak become a good thing in our society?

 

[philkensebben]

It is criminal to hunt an endangered species towards extinction; it is worse than criminal to do so when you have no need

Yes but Minke whales are not endangered and they are the principle target. I appreciate the concern directed at other species - fin whales for example, and fully support the opposition.

 

[NoahFence]

Yes but Minke whales are not endangered and they are the principle target. I appreciate the concern directed at other species - fin whales for example, and fully support the opposition.

While that may be true, it could also have been said about Right Whales, or any other critter we saw fit to drive toward extinction.

 

[NoahFence]

I'm not talking about HIM, I'm talking about avg weepy vegan weirdo whining about whales and pandas and dolphins.

when did being weak become a good thing in our society?

Giving a crap about something besides yourself = weak?

 

[StankApe]

getting all blubbery about animals over human beings IS pretty pathetic.

It's the product of a a nice comfortable upbringing.

 

[NoahFence]

getting all blubbery about animals over human beings IS pretty pathetic.

It's the product of a a nice comfortable upbringing.

Boy, you got it all figured out.

 

[StankApe]

I'm just a terrible person

 

[smartcooky]

they couldn't adapt to humans, they died, life goes on.

this emotional attachment to animal life is amusing to me. I call it the "fuzzy factor" you don't see too many people raising hell about reptiles, bugs and other such creepy crawlies, but give them a cute face and a sad backstory and they will spend billions of dollars ramming their boats into the "offenders" at high speed, while blubbering incessantly about how much they care!

I think those sorts of people are hilariously retarded!!!

Its actually about survival.

We don't live in some king of magnificent isolation; we live in a finely balanced ecosystem, and messing with the order of that ecosystem is a very risky business.

I'm glad you brought up bugs. Just imagine what would happen to the human race if we were to entirely wipe out all insect life on the planet. You would be quite happy I imagine. No more pesky insects to bite you, no flies to land on your dinner.

The reality would be utter disaster for the human race....

More than half the world's crops are pollinated by bees and other insects; no insects, no pollination, a 50% failure of crops worldwide, mass starvation of people measured in billions. Wars over food will wipe out even more. The world herbivore population suffers mass starvation and extinction, and that follows up the food chain to the carnivores who will run out of prey.

In the mean time, there are billions of dead animals all over the world, as well as dead humans. But there will be no flies other insects to dispose of the rotting flesh. While the lack of insects will remove the insect vector from the transmission of disease, the sheer weight of carcasses will ensure that airborne bacteria will transmit disease to many of the remaining living individuals.

That is how important insects are to us.

Everything in the food chain has is place. It took this planet 4.5 billion years to reach the balance it has today, and we are in danger of seriously disrupting that in just a few hundred thousand years of human existence.

It is now thought that the dramatic rise of the toxic algal blooms that infect shellfish farms along coastal waters is a direct consequence of the lowering of populations of some whales and dolphins; not enough of them around to keep in check the populations of fish and other water-borne life that feed on the algae. You just never know what the consequence of wiping out one species is going to have on the environment we live in.