The Australian "custody sisters"

[ponderingturtle]

Don't give in to hate. That leads to the dark side.

Welcome to the dark side, we have cookies.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The kids are probably settling in and accepting the situation, but the mother isn't because she has lost everything.

I'll be honest. I got interested in this last fall, but no way would I have gotten involved. I can see that these people have problems. And I don't see any clear goal that I could support.

Mainly I was horrified that the cops would swoop in and do that to children. No one will ever convince me it was justified or that it was anything less than a devastating and traumatic experience for those children.

But it's done, and it can't be undone. At this point, I think the best thing might be if the mother reconciled herself to the situation and negotiated some way to spend part of the year in Italy to be with the kids. But I can see how she could really be in for a hassle if she went back to that town.

But I'm disturbed by the outpouring of hatred for this woman that I'm seeing here on JREF, going so far as to compare her to sexual predators who abduct children. I'm also disturbed by the way people are trivializing what happened to the kids last fall.

And given that the mother wanted that so much how do you avoid it? What should they have done?

 

[ehcks]

Given that my argument is that the dispute could have been ended without troubling the courts, that isn't a helpful question.

The courts were "troubled" by the simple fact they were getting legally divorced while they had kids. Should the courts have just given up the instant the mother ran to Australia with them?

 

[lionking]

All the best parents steal their kids, block access to the other parent and poison the relationships as much as possible.

Do we have any evidence of her being a fit parent because all the actual evidence is on the other side? I know you don't care about evidence but you don't have any.

Have you been following this thread? I'm asking for people who have called this mother ******* crazy and an unfit mother to prove their claim. Even Caper concedes she's a fit mother. Maybe there's a heap of butthurt dads on the wrong side of custody disputes here?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Beceause, unless there is strong evidence to the contrary, being raised by one or more if their biological parents is deemed to be in the best interests of a child.

So it is that kids are property then? It would seem pretty easy for lots of kidnappers to generate the kind of scene everyone is reacting to

 

[ponderingturtle]

Even if that is true, that does not mean that the best interests of the children are best served by forcing them back to Italy to continue the dispute.

Yea best leave them being brainwashed. What should they have done? You admit to the brainwashing then want them to stay in it. This seems wrong to me.

 

[lionking]

So it is that kids are property then?

This seems to be the position of those who say that the children should have no say where they should stay.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Given that my argument is that the dispute could have been ended without troubling the courts, that isn't a helpful question.

So the father hires people to kidnap the kids back is your solution? Or you are in favor of leaving them with their kidnapping brainwashing mother?

Those are the only non legal options here.

 

[brodski]

So it is that kids are property then? It would seem pretty easy for lots of kidnappers to generate the kind of scene everyone is reacting to

How the hell did you get "kids are property" from the idea that custody should be decided in the best interests of the children and the asdumption is that being raised by a biological patent is in the best interests of a child until proven otherwise?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Have you been following this thread? I'm asking for people who have called this mother ******* crazy and an unfit mother to prove their claim. Even Caper concedes she's a fit mother. Maybe there's a heap of butthurt dads on the wrong side of custody disputes here?

The court paper that spanked her hard for her actions and found her to be brainwashing her kids is a good place to start. Unless you think those are the actions of a fit parent.

I mean I get it, you wouldn't have cared if your ex took your kids to the other side of the world and did all she could to make them hate you, but many fathers have a different view of it.

 

[ponderingturtle]

This seems to be the position of those who say that the children should have no say where they should stay.

And yet giving them total say isn't what people support either for some reason.

 

[brodski]

So the father hires people to kidnap the kids back is your solution? Or you are in favor of leaving them with their kidnapping brainwashing mother?

Those are the only non legal options here.

If leaving them whith their mother prevents the harmful media circus, then yes. I know this seems unjust and turns me into a combination of the child catcher and Madonna, but sometimes unfair and imperfect solutions provide the least harmful outcomes.

 

[ponderingturtle]

How the hell did you get "kids are property" from the idea that custody should be decided in the best interests of the children and the asdumption is that being raised by a biological patent is in the best interests of a child until proven otherwise?

Because you are ignoring the wishes of the child, and instead basing this on some view of their abstract best interest. Rather exactly like those who support the father here.

 

[brodski]

Because you are ignoring the wishes of the child, and instead basing this on some view of their abstract best interest. Rather exactly like those who support the father here.

The wishes if the children factor in to their best interests, but they are not the be all and end all. Thats kind of the point of having legal guardians, that does not make children property.

 

[lionking]

The court paper that spanked her hard for her actions and found her to be brainwashing her kids is a good place to start. Unless you think those are the actions of a fit parent.

I mean I get it, you wouldn't have cared if your ex took your kids to the other side of the world and did all she could to make them hate you, but many fathers have a different view of it.

Oh dear. Are you a butthurt dad on the wrong end of a custody dispute?

 

[ponderingturtle]

If leaving them whith their mother prevents the harmful media circus, then yes. I know this seems unjust and turns me into a combination of the child catcher and Madonna, but sometimes unfair and imperfect solutions provide the least harmful outcomes.

So leaving them being brainwashed in a crazy family is bettet than subjecting them to a media circus orchestrated by said family? I can't agree with that. The media circus is more evidence of how unfit the mother is.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Oh dear. Are you a butthurt dad on the wrong end of a custody dispute?

Oh dear you have some issues when your standards for others get applied to you.

 

[joesixpack]

Oh dear. Are you a butthurt dad on the wrong end of a custody dispute?

And this is the sum total of your entire argument. You think this woman's actions were only trivially inconvenient and the only reason anyone would disagree is because they're a butthurt non-custodial parent.

 

[ponderingturtle]

What I find weird is people decrying the very event the mother orchestrated to successfully get then on her side while still siding with her.

If the media circus is so bad isn't that evidence against the mother who instigated it?

 

[BenBurch]

It is emotionally abusive to alienate a child from a parent.

http://www.parentalalienation.com.au/

I've seen people sent to jail for considerable periods for doing what this woman did.