The Australian "custody sisters"

[lionking]

Making the claim is easy. Backing it up is almost always a bit more work.

Yeah, a bit like backing up the claim the children were brainwashed.

Anyone who thinks one side is completely right, or even overwhelmingly right in a custody dispute is hopelessly naive. I certainly don't. I just dislike the irrational piling on of the mother, punctuated with comments like she's obviously ******* crazy.

 

[joesixpack]

I seriously doubt this woman is an abusive mother. The oldest of these girls is 14, well past the age where kids automatically believe whatever an adult tells them.

Except that they are in a strange country with no other family support and are completely dependent on their mother for everything It's not a question of believing everything, it's a question of keeping on your benefactor's good side. Are you old enough to remember Patty Hearst?

 

[Caper]

That's what got me worked up about this case in the first place. I watched the video, and I don't find that kind of treatment of children acceptable under any circumstances.

You see that.... and I see kids who originally wanted to go back to Italy, being turned into that.

The fact that 4 young girls became that terrified of a man they originally wanted to go back to......... screams brain washing and parental manipulation. To rob 4 little girls of the good memories of their father is incredibly despicable to me.

That seen was no doubt EXACTLY what the mother wanted.

 

[Caper]

Yeah, a bit like backing up the claim the children were brainwashed.

Anyone who thinks one side is completely right, or even overwhelmingly right in a custody dispute is hopelessly naive. I certainly don't. I just dislike the irrational piling on of the mother, punctuated with comments like she's obviously ******* crazy.

What part of kidnapping is not 100% wrong to you?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

You see that.... and I see kids who originally wanted to go back to Italy, being turned into that.

How do you know they ever wanted to go back to Italy, other than one comment made by the youngest child, cited in the court report?

Did any of them ever express a willingness to go back to Italy if their mother stayed in Australia?

 

[joesixpack]

Yeah, a bit like backing up the claim the children were brainwashed.

Anyone who thinks one side is completely right, or even overwhelmingly right in a custody dispute is hopelessly naive. I certainly don't. I just dislike the irrational piling on of the mother, punctuated with comments like she's obviously ******* crazy.

So explain to me how spiriting the children away from a loving parent,and then hiding them from Australian authorities is rational. I'm still waiting for a fact based explanation of that, not hypothetical musings.

 

[lionking]

You mean hypothetical musings about brainwashing?

 

[katy_did]

If you doubt me, go to the FB page at the top of this thread and look at the cover photo, a collage of correspondence the girls have sent their mother from Italy, during the time they have been in the care of their father.

I've seen those, and my impression was that the children were very much aware of what their mother wanted to hear - certainly not that they had settled in and were happy. One of the kids wrote:

The people who we are staying with just keep talking about this damn lake, I don't know what's so special about it but they kept insisting that we saw it, so last night when it was all dark they brought us to see the lake (that was smart!), but because it was so dark, we just couldn't see anything! The only "exiting" thing they have here is a castle, where Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes got married, and in the castle they've even got a chamber of tortoures, but I don't really want to see it!

Hmmm, is she really have such a terrible time of things? Or is she just reluctant to share any happy experiences with her mother, because she knows she won't want to hear them? I think it would be naive not to think all of the children are strongly influenced by their mother's expectations.

Incidentally, the former administrator of the page has since distanced herself from the family:

The former administrator of the Kids without Voices website, Melissa Thompson, has also spoken out about breaking away because of her frustrations with the family.

"The mother is trying to make money to get funds for her Italian lawyer, but in the process of doing this she is trying to hype the kids up and incite fear in them and keep them kicking and screaming," she said.

 

[Damien Evans]

Not only have I raised, with my wife, seven children to adulthood, I've avoided any nasty custody disputes. This is perhaps why I don't harbour irrational hatred to the mother.

At this point, anything other than hatred to the mother is the irrational view.

 

[Sideroxylon]

At this point, anything other than hatred to the mother is the irrational view.

Don't give in to hate. That leads to the dark side.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

I've seen those, and my impression was that the children were very much aware of what their mother wanted to hear - certainly not that they had settled in and were happy. One of the kids wrote:

Hmmm, is she really have such a terrible time of things? Or is she just reluctant to share any happy experiences with her mother, because she knows she won't want to hear them? I think it would be naive not to think all of the children are strongly influenced by their mother's expectations.

Incidentally, the former administrator of the page has since distanced herself from the family:

The kids are probably settling in and accepting the situation, but the mother isn't because she has lost everything.

I'll be honest. I got interested in this last fall, but no way would I have gotten involved. I can see that these people have problems. And I don't see any clear goal that I could support.

Mainly I was horrified that the cops would swoop in and do that to children. No one will ever convince me it was justified or that it was anything less than a devastating and traumatic experience for those children.

But it's done, and it can't be undone. At this point, I think the best thing might be if the mother reconciled herself to the situation and negotiated some way to spend part of the year in Italy to be with the kids. But I can see how she could really be in for a hassle if she went back to that town.

But I'm disturbed by the outpouring of hatred for this woman that I'm seeing here on JREF, going so far as to compare her to sexual predators who abduct children. I'm also disturbed by the way people are trivializing what happened to the kids last fall.

I feel the same way I did when I was discussing the LeTourneau case on seattle.general many years ago. I saw a pitiful woman with terrible judgment. But most people saw a sexual predator who deserved the worst. They were ready to burn her at the stake - she's a CHILD RAPIST! Don't you get it??? She RAPED a CHILD!

Now the child is grown up, she is out of prison, and they are married.

It makes me think of Shirley Jackson's story, The Lottery.

 

[brodski]

Why does their best interest suddenly disappear if they are kidnapped by a stranger or more distance relative?

Beceause, unless there is strong evidence to the contrary, being raised by one or more if their biological parents is deemed to be in the best interests of a child.

 

[brodski]

At this point, anything other than hatred to the mother is the irrational view.

Even if that is true, that does not mean that the best interests of the children are best served by forcing them back to Italy to continue the dispute.

 

[brodski]

But it's done, and it can't be undone. At this point, I think the best thing might be if the mother reconciled herself to the situation and negotiated some way to spend part of the year in Italy to be with the kids. But I can see how she could really be in for a hassle if she went back to that town.

Do you think that the father would have an easier time in Australia given the press coverage and the way his ex wife's family has acted?

 

[brodski]

Yeah, a bit like backing up the claim the children were brainwashed.

That was essentially the finding of the court, based on the evsluations of a psychologist, which is the best evidence we have and are ever likely to get.

 

[ehcks]

Even if that is true, that does not mean that the best interests of the children are best served by forcing them back to Italy to continue the dispute.

And where else should this court case be held than the location you lived at for a majority of your life, the entire time you had not yet been kidnapped, and the entire time your parents were married?

 

[brodski]

And where else should this court case be held than the location you lived at for a majority of your life, the entire time you had not yet been kidnapped, and the entire time your parents were married?

Given that my argument is that the dispute could have been ended without troubling the courts, that isn't a helpful question.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Ignoring the untrue personal attacks, where is your evidence that the mother taught the children to hate their father? I believe you have an irrational hatred of this woman, and are imagining behaviours not in evidence (and you're not the only one in this thread).

Nowhere have I said that the mother is without fault. I simply repeat the shrill cries "she's not a fit mother, she's ******* crazy" are not supported by evidence. All people can come up with is she defied a court order, therefore she's unfit. I think that's rubbish.

All the best parents steal their kids, block access to the other parent and poison the relationships as much as possible.

Do we have any evidence of her being a fit parent because all the actual evidence is on the other side? I know you don't care about evidence but you don't have any.

 

[Caper]

The kids are probably settling in and accepting the situation, but the mother isn't because she has lost everything.

I'll be honest. I got interested in this last fall, but no way would I have gotten involved. I can see that these people have problems. And I don't see any clear goal that I could support.

Mainly I was horrified that the cops would swoop in and do that to children. No one will ever convince me it was justified or that it was anything less than a devastating and traumatic experience for those children.

But it's done, and it can't be undone. At this point, I think the best thing might be if the mother reconciled herself to the situation and negotiated some way to spend part of the year in Italy to be with the kids. But I can see how she could really be in for a hassle if she went back to that town.

But I'm disturbed by the outpouring of hatred for this woman that I'm seeing here on JREF, going so far as to compare her to sexual predators who abduct children. I'm also disturbed by the way people are trivializing what happened to the kids last fall.

I feel the same way I did when I was discussing the LeTourneau case on seattle.general many years ago. I saw a pitiful woman with terrible judgment. But most people saw a sexual predator who deserved the worst. They were ready to burn her at the stake - she's a CHILD RAPIST! Don't you get it??? She RAPED a CHILD!

Now the child is grown up, she is out of prison, and they are married.

It makes me think of Shirley Jackson's story, The Lottery.

I don't hate the woman. I absolutely hate what she did. To rob children of the good memories of their father and to screw them up as bad as they did, is simply a terrible, awful thing to do.....

Is she a good mother? Probably....... but I have questions of allowing any children near those disgusting old hogs that are the grandmother and great grandmother.

But. The Aus Embassy plays a huge role in this... IMO, they are now obligated to pay the mothers way to Italy and support her for as long as she wants to stay there. It's unfortunate, but they played a huge role.

 

[ponderingturtle]

What part of kidnapping is not 100% wrong to you?

The part where the kids pitch a fit to stay with their kidnapper. I just don't see why that should only apply to parental kidnappings.