The Australian "custody sisters"

[lionking]

It is emotionally abusive to alienate a child from a parent.

So you have no evidence. Gotcha.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

ETA: The children were placed into foster care at some point, which means that the mother was judged unfit by a social worker. So yes, someone certainly HAS judged her unfit.

When were the kids put into foster care and for what reason? I wasn't aware of this.

 

[Caper]

So you have no evidence. Gotcha.

Oh so you don't think it is bad for a child to be ripped from a parent?

 

[joesixpack]

So you have no evidence. Gotcha.

What? So prove to me that striking a child with a hammer is physically abusive. It is tautologically true! I can't believe that you would think, for a single instant, that alienating a child from a parent is not emotional abuse. I don't believe you have ever raised a child. the very suggestion that there is no proof that teaching a child to hate a loving parent is unacceptable behavior is very telling. No wonder you find this woman's actions acceptable, you're too ignorant to understand the emotional needs of a child.

 

[Caper]

I've been reading quite a bit... I've read that when this all started 2 years ago... the girls wanted to go back to Italy.

hmmmm I wonder what changed their minds?

Unbelievable to me how people could support a kidnaper.

 

[joesixpack]

When were the kids put into foster care and for what reason? I wasn't aware of this.

This article states that they were taken out of foster care and returned to the mother but is unclear when they went into the foster system. I believe it was after she had hidden them after the first time the court ruled that they return to tialy

 

[Caper]

Can't believe this mother robbed these kids a relationship with their father.... worst then that... ruined their good memories of him.

I found this message from a woman who grew up in a similar situation.

This happened to me when I was a child and after so many yrs of listening to my mothers brainwashing I thought I hated my dad I thought he was evil. As an adult I know she lied she stole a healthy childhood relationship that I should have had with my dad she had no right. At one point the Australian gov helped her believing her stories without seeing one scrap of evidence even though she kept changing her story.

Unbelievable this mother has any supporters.

 

[joesixpack]

Oh so you don't think it is bad for a child to be ripped from a parent?

Is that not the most irrational defense of parental alienation you've ever read? That it's not abusive to the child?

This, from someone who claims to have raised children, is the most bewildering thing imaginable. How could it NOT be abuse?

 

[lionking]

What? So prove to me that striking a child with a hammer is physically abusive. It is tautologically true! I can't believe that you would think, for a single instant, that alienating a child from a parent is not emotional abuse. I don't believe you have ever raised a child. the very suggestion that there is no proof that teaching a child to hate a loving parent is unacceptable behavior is very telling. No wonder you find this woman's actions acceptable, you're too ignorant to understand the emotional needs of a child.

Ignoring the untrue personal attacks, where is your evidence that the mother taught the children to hate their father? I believe you have an irrational hatred of this woman, and are imagining behaviours not in evidence (and you're not the only one in this thread).

Nowhere have I said that the mother is without fault. I simply repeat the shrill cries "she's not a fit mother, she's ******* crazy" are not supported by evidence. All people can come up with is she defied a court order, therefore she's unfit. I think that's rubbish.

 

[Caper]

Whose crazier?

a)The mother who kidnaped them, destroyed her childrens memories of their father and brainwashed them?

b)The grandmother who got her son inlaw to rent her a car.... then stole the car.

c) The great grandmother who kidnapped the kids again?

What is it about the apple not falling far from the tree?

 

[joesixpack]

Ignoring the untrue personal attacks, where is your evidence that the mother taught the children to hate their father? I believe you have an irrational hatred of this woman, and are imagining behaviours not in evidence (and you're not the only one in this thread).

Nowhere have I said that the mother is without fault. I simply repeat the shrill cries "she's not a fit mother, she's ******* crazy" are not supported by evidence. All people can come up with is she defied a court order, therefore she's unfit. I think that's rubbish.

Before I answer this, I need to know if you've read anything about this case? It seems that you haven't. I'm tempted to believe that we are talking about two separate child abduction cases but I'm pretty certain that there's not another one you could be confusing it with.

Please read the judges opinion. He had access to all of the facts. Please read this article as well.

If you still think she was NOT in the wrong, please demonstrate to me that a grave injustice was done by reuniting the children with their father.

As I said above, I am finding it highly doubtful that you've ever raised children in spite of what you claim.

 

[lionking]

As I said above, I am finding it highly doubtful that you've ever raised children in spite of what you claim.

Not only have I raised, with my wife, seven children to adulthood, I've avoided any nasty custody disputes. This is perhaps why I don't harbour irrational hatred to the mother.

 

[Caper]

Nowhere have I said that the mother is without fault. I simply repeat the shrill cries "she's not a fit mother, she's ******* crazy" are not supported by evidence. All people can come up with is she defied a court order, therefore she's unfit. I think that's rubbish.

I don't care if she's fit or not. Of course she's a fit mother.... that's a pretty low bar.

But, she is also a kidnapper.

What is true is that the kids originally wanted to go back to Italy and in two years with only their mother... they became terrified of their father.

Why do you think that was? Are you that blind?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

This article states that they were taken out of foster care and returned to the mother but is unclear when they went into the foster system. I believe it was after she had hidden them after the first time the court ruled that they return to tialy

I see. She did not comply with an order to put them on a plane last spring, so when they were located, the judge put them into foster care, but then returned them to the mother's care because they were unhappy.

I seriously doubt this woman is an abusive mother. The oldest of these girls is 14, well past the age where kids automatically believe whatever an adult tells them. She and the second oldest are the ones who most adamantly do not want to live with the father and do want to live with the mother in Australia.

If you doubt me, go to the FB page at the top of this thread and look at the cover photo, a collage of correspondence the girls have sent their mother from Italy, during the time they have been in the care of their father.

I think the father has gained a Pyrrhic victory in this case. In a few years, these kids will no longer be his private possessions. They will be free to decide what if any relationship they want to have with him, and there won't be anything the court can do about it.

 

[Caper]

Not only have I raised, with my wife, seven children to adulthood, I've avoided any nasty custody disputes. This is perhaps why I don't harbour irrational hatred to the mother.

To dislike the mother is absolutely perfectly rational.

1) She's a kidnapper.
2) She destroyed her children's memories of their father (who originally wanted to go back to them)

She is essentially a child abuser....

It's a perfectly rational feeling to have about this woman.

 

[lionking]

I don't care if she's fit or not. Of course she's a fit mother.... that's a pretty low bar.

But, she is also a kidnapper.

What is true is that the kids originally wanted to go back to Italy and in two years with only their mother... they became terrified of their father.

Why do you think that was? Are you that blind?

Again, ignoring the personal attacks, thank you for admitting she's a fit mother. I could have sworn you said she wasn't earlier.

Evidence the children were brainwashed please? Perhaps they just grew up and realised they were better off living with their mother. Their feelings are relevant.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Oh so you don't think it is bad for a child to be ripped from a parent?

That's what got me worked up about this case in the first place. I watched the video, and I don't find that kind of treatment of children acceptable under any circumstances.

 

[This is The End]

This is an example of equivocation and sloppy definitions.

They simply want to have their cake and eat it too.

They want to be able to claim that taking the kids was justified without having to explain why exactly the current law is unjust in this situation. That should have been clear, but I guess it wasn't.

Obviously there are unjust laws in the history of this world. And when there are, it should be fairly easy to have a discussion about them. Not just "you are wrong".

Making the claim is easy. Backing it up is almost always a bit more work.

 

[Caper]

Again, ignoring the personal attacks, thank you for admitting she's a fit mother. I could have sworn you said she wasn't earlier.

Again... it's a pretty low bar to be a fit mother. She is still a child abuser and a kidnapper who surrounds herself with two of the craziest old hags I ever seen.

.... I mean seriously... who on gods green earth would get their son in law to rent a car........... then steal the car.

Evidence the children were brainwashed please? Perhaps they just grew up and realised they were better off living with their mother. Their feelings are relevant.

I can't find a link yet... so I cannot confirm... but apparently 2 years ago they all wanted to go back.

How you can even think for a second that change of heart was just a growing up process as opposed to manipulation by the mother is beyond me.

 

[joesixpack]

Not only have I raised, with my wife, seven children to adulthood, I've avoided any nasty custody disputes. This is perhaps why I don't harbour irrational hatred to the mother.

A lot of divorcing couples avoid nasty custody disputes. Mine was worse than most, but even my drug addled bi-polar cluster "b" ex wasn't as horrible as this woman. And I will state again, I have no hatred for this her, though I find it difficult not to be angry with her. But there is nothing irrational about my attitude towards her. I recognize her for what she is. A selfish and spiteful woman who thinks nothing of using her children as a weapon to get back at her ex. You seem to think she's done nothing remarkably outre`.

So far nothing you've said in this entire thread makes much sense. You've suggested that alienating a child from a parent isn't abuse, that she may have been "rescuing" the children, and that the children should stay with the mother. All patently absurd assertions. The trouble isn't my "irrational hatred", it's your irrational defense of this abuser.