LDS

[Craig4]

Pup, Lucifer is not empowered to impart that which I experienced... an all encompassing warmth or burning within, plus an overwhelming opening up of understanding and knowledge and a certainty of truth which could not be denied. That power is denied him.

How do you know this?

 

[Astreja]

Pup, Lucifer is not empowered to impart that which I experienced... an all encompassing warmth or burning within, plus an overwhelming opening up of understanding and knowledge and a certainty of truth which could not be denied. That power is denied him.

Then how did *I* get a very similar experience in May 1999, Janadele, without believing in nor worshipping your god?

 

[Sideroxylon]

Pup, Lucifer is not empowered to impart that which I experienced... an all encompassing warmth or burning within, plus an overwhelming opening up of understanding and knowledge and a certainty of truth which could not be denied. That power is denied him.

That's what the Great Deceiver wants you to think. Ask some real Christians who have the Jesus in their hearts. They'll tell you.

 

[Pixel42]

Then how did *I* get a very similar experience in May 1999, Janadele, without believing in nor worshipping your god?

How for that matter did millions of people all over the world, of all religions and none, get identical experiences?

That "overwhelming opening up of understanding and knowledge and a certainty of truth which could not be denied" is exactly what I felt when I was 12, except the understanding and knowledge was that there was nothing and no-one out there listening to my prayers.

If Janadele is correct and such experiences come from outside the mind, then the source of mine was obviously Satan. So her assumption that her own - the one that led her to the LDS - could not also have come from Satan is wrong.

 

[pakeha]

Indeed.

I'd be very interested to learn more about Janadele's understanding of ancient Egyptian customs, culture, religion and language and how she has drawn upon that knowledge to arrive at her surety that Joseph Smith's translation of the Book of Abraham is valid.

While Pharaoh's wisdom provides a guiding light to all, my humble opinion is to warn against confusing any of our Mormons with talk of knowledge and understanding.
O Pharaoh, the theological value Mormons place in the BoA obviously trumps the fact it's a fraud.

Pup, Lucifer is not empowered to impart that which I experienced... an all encompassing warmth or burning within, plus an overwhelming opening up of understanding and knowledge and a certainty of truth which could not be denied. That power is denied him.

RandFan's post is worth repeating here.

We have a robust theory of the cognitive and neurophysiological aspects of spiritual experience of revelation. We also understand the environmental triggers of these events. They include prayer, fasting, repetitive ritual, peer suggestion (see Asch Experiment).

We simply know far too much about human behavior, cognition, physiology, and psychology to suppose that these events are supernatural.

BTW: All religious communities experience them.

 

[tsig]

Pup, Lucifer is not empowered to impart that which I experienced... an all encompassing warmth or burning within, plus an overwhelming opening up of understanding and knowledge and a certainty of truth which could not be denied. That power is denied him.

Why does god give him any power at all?

 

[Janadele]

And who decides which powers are allowed him, and why allow him any powers at all in the first place?

Why does god give him any power at all?

Eternal Law.

 

[tsig]

Eternal Law.

God has to follow Eternal Law?

 

[Janadele]

God has to follow Eternal Law?

Yes, as has been posted previously.

 

[Craig4]

Yes, as has been posted previously.

Explain the authority to govern that permitted your eternal law?

 

[Janadele]

Janadele, what are the salient points of this 'Eternal Law'? ...

Here are just a few of the many available references to Eternal Law:

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5). Through Him mercy can be fully extended to each of us without offending the eternal law of justice...And by eternal law, mercy cannot be extended save there be one who is both willing and able to assume our debt and pay the price and arrange the terms for our redemption." http://www.lds.org/liahona/2011/04/the-mediator-jesus-christ?lang=eng&query="eternal+law"

"Every incorrect choice we make, every sin we commit is a violation of eternal law... We can do nothing of ourselves to satisfy the demands of justice for a broken eternal law." http://www.lds.org/new-era/2010/03/finding-forgiveness?lang=eng&query="eternal+law"

"The source and cause of true happiness are gospel truth and obedience to eternal law." http://www.lds.org/friend/2011/03/how-can-the-gospel-help-me-be-happy?lang=eng&query="eternal+law"

"Revelation from God is always compatible with His eternal law" http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2009/10/ask-seek-knock?lang=eng&query="eternal+law"

"Before the Crucifixion and afterward, many men have willingly given their lives in selfless acts of heroism. But none faced what Christ endured. Upon Him was the burden of all human transgression, all human guilt. And hanging in the balance was the Atonement. Through His willing act, mercy and justice could be reconciled, eternal law sustained, and that mediation achieved without which mortal man could not be redeemed." http://www.lds.org/ensign/2008/03/who-is-jesus-christ?lang=eng&query="eternal+law"

 

[Akhenaten]

Of course I meant to write it that way... I mean everything I write.

Now you're scaring me.

It is not my concern should the reader have no understanding beyond their mundane mortal life.

Why are you here then?

It is obvious if the Messenger is not of our mortal world, and it is reassuring to know how to recognise if the Messenger is from Lucifer.

This is exactly equivalent to an adult believing that there's some trick involved in being able to tell the difference between Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny actually existing and Mummy and Daddy indulging the fantasies of an infant.

The content of the message is the first indication.

I'm inclined to agree. What I don't understand is that the content of the message being "Hello, a big, whiskery fairy sent me!" doesn't set off any alarm bells for you.

Then if there is doubt, and there is no physical body, the Messenger can be dismissed with these words:
"In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to leave." also
"Get thou behind me Satan."

​

It would usually be a personal experience not broadcast to the world. However there are recorded testimonies available to all to read, such as the many Heavenly visitations to the Prophet Joseph Smith.

It's been demonstrated beyond any doubt whatsoever both in this thread and elsewhere that Smith is a liar and a fraud.

Your continuing pretence/ignorance of this is becoming increasingly comical.

 

[Akhenaten]

So what about something not brought by a messenger with hands, like a burning in the bosom? How can one tell that it's not a trick of Satan?

There's a little note in the box it comes in that says "This message is totally not from Lucifer".

What could go wrong?

 

[Akhenaten]

Janadele, your link seems to lead to something completely irelevant....

Well that's a surprise.


No, wait . . .

 

[desertgal]

However there are recorded testimonies available to all to read, such as the many Heavenly visitations to the Prophet Joseph Smith.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/110.8?lang=eng#7

Ah. More fiction from Joe.

You have to give him credit for imagination.

 

[Akhenaten]

Pup, Lucifer is not empowered to impart that which I experienced... an all encompassing warmth or burning within, plus an overwhelming opening up of understanding and knowledge and a certainty of truth which could not be denied. That power is denied him.

Dime bag drug dealers have this power. I'm fairly sure an archangel could manage it, were there such a thing.

 

[Akhenaten]

Pup, Lucifer is not empowered to impart that which I experienced... an all encompassing warmth or burning within, plus an overwhelming opening up of understanding and knowledge and a certainty of truth which could not be denied. That power is denied him.

How do you know this?

Foolproof!​

 

[Foster Zygote]

Pup, Lucifer is not empowered to impart that which I experienced... an all encompassing warmth or burning within, plus an overwhelming opening up of understanding and knowledge and a certainty of truth which could not be denied. That power is denied him.

Then who is giving that same feeling to people to convince them of the truth of other religions?

 

[Akhenaten]

And who decides which powers are allowed him, and why allow him any powers at all in the first place?

Why does god give him any power at all?

Eternal Law.

You appear to be acknowledging that your god thingy is bound by laws that predate it and yet at the same time proclaiming that it's the be-all and end-all of things Godemonical.

I have to wonder why my god (who made those laws) allows your upstart to get away with such heresy.

During my next supplication I'm going to request a smiting. Prepare ye thyself.

 

[Akhenaten]

God has to follow Eternal Law?

Yes, as has been posted previously.

So have pictures of bigfoot, proof of the efficacy of homeopathy and irrefutable evidence that aliens built the Great Pyramid.