Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

[jof]

Continually drinking that poison with relish isn't.

ETA: RW told a guy "don't do that" and the world of penile enabled exploded.

I don't think "enabled" is the suitable word.

 

[squealpiggy]

I don't think "enabled" is the suitable word.

"Your privilege is showing"

"So?"

"Penis. I meant 'Your penis is showing'"

 

[Doctor Plop]

Pissy Myarse.

So there.

 

[jof]

Pissy Myarse.

So there.

I googled that frase......

 

[Myriad]

But if you are going to drink poison you may as well drink it with relish. Or at least hot sauce.

Specifically:

 

[squealpiggy]

Specifically:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/130125127881cac899.jpg[/qimg]

There's nothing hotter!

 

[Myriad]

There's nothing hotter!

Not literally true. Scorned Woman brand has been around for many years; it's actually a very well-balanced sauce, quite hot but tasty, and not part of the more recent capsaicin arms race that's been going on in the hot sauce world.

But enough scovillesplaining. Actually, I think speculating about the "origin of the poison" in Watson's (or anyone's) personal life is not legitimate discourse. It's barely a step away from just calling them all "hysterical," in its original meaning of "unable to think rationally due to possessing a uterus."

("Privileged" is far from the first descriptor designed to deny another's capability to have a valid point of view worthy of addressing. "Hysterical" has a proud place on that list, along with "bourgeois," "brainwashed by the media," and many others.)

There's a slippery slope between demonstrations of "how would you like it if we used the same nasty tactics you use?" and actually using the same nasty tactics they use. The abyss gazes also, and all that.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[squealpiggy]

But enough scovillesplaining. Actually, I think speculating about the "origin of the poison" in Watson's (or anyone's) personal life is not legitimate discourse. It's barely a step away from just calling them all "hysterical," in its original meaning of "unable to think rationally due to possessing a uterus."

Which is of course absurd. I'm perfectly rational and I have an entire collection of uteruses.

Dear FBI,

That comment was a joke

Love and kisses,

S. Piggy

 

[theprestige]

Well, there does seem to be some basis for "hysterical" meaning "unwilling to think rationally due to possessing a uterus and being under the impression that possessing a uterus exempts one from having to conform to the patriarchy's male-privileging so-called 'rational thinking'."

 

[d4m10n]

"Privileged" is far from the first descriptor designed to deny another's capability to have a valid point of view worthy of addressing. "Hysterical" has a proud place on that list, along with "bourgeois," "brainwashed by the media," and many others.

Oddly enough, C.S. Lewis turned me on to this problem when I was still a fiery evangelical Christian. He called it 'Bulverism' but we know it as the ad hominem circumstantial. Of course, he also engaged in it on occasion, as do we all. It's a good excercise to catalog and mentally yellow flag the words or phrases most commonly used to dismiss other people's arguments by taking note of their personal background.

(Of course, those words might be perfectly servicable adjectives in other contexts, e.g. I had the privilege of seeing Louis Black's hysterical performance when he hit OKC.)

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Tracing the poison to its source is a worthwhile endeavour, and it can always be traced to an individual's heart and painful past.

That reads like a statement which should be backed up with some scientific studies.

 

[Mr. Scott]

That reads like a statement which should be backed up with some scientific studies.

I don't mind having "where's your science?" thrown at me, nor do I mind being wrong. It's a basic principle in psychology that anger comes from pain.

Maybe it doesn't matter why A+ and FTB got to where it is. Maybe it only matters where it's going, but a forensic inquiry into why this train wreck happened I feel fully justified in taking to any extent, including into the hearts of its originators. This means walking back along the train tracks as far as needed to find any original broken ties, loose spikes, misplaced switches, and faulty wheels.

Where would all this be if there never was that unfortunate "Dear Muslima" letter? You really can make a case for that as seminal cause of derailment.

Dear Muslima
Stop whining, will you. Yes, yes, I know you had your genitals mutilated with a razor blade, and … yawn … don’t tell me yet again, I know you aren’t allowed to drive a car, and you can’t leave the house without a male relative, and your husband is allowed to beat you, and you’ll be stoned to death if you commit adultery. But stop whining, will you. Think of the suffering your poor American sisters have to put up with.
Only this week I heard of one, she calls herself Skep”chick”, and do you know what happened to her? A man in a hotel elevator invited her back to his room for coffee. I am not exaggerating. He really did. He invited her back to his room for coffee. Of course she said no, and of course he didn’t lay a finger on her, but even so …
And you, Muslima, think you have misogyny to complain about! For goodness sake grow up, or at least grow a thicker skin.
Richard [Dawkins]

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I don't mind having "where's your science?" thrown at me, nor do I mind being wrong.

Cool, then please back up your statements by citing the relevant studies.

 

[d4m10n]

Where would all this be if there never was that unfortunate "Dear Muslima" letter? You really can make a case for that as seminal cause of derailment.

I really don't think so. If you watch the talk that RW gave the day before The Night of the Long Elevator Ride you will see that she was bound and determined to keep pressing on the topic of sexism within our community, regardless of whether it fit the topic of the forum. The derailment was already in progress; the elevator guy and RD's inflammatory comment merely drew more attention thereto.

 

[RandFan]

Maybe it doesn't matter why A+ and FTB got to where it is.

Perhaps not but hubris played a big part.

Where would all this be if there never was that unfortunate "Dear Muslima" letter? You really can make a case for that as seminal cause of derailment.

Where would all this be if Watson hadn't called out Stefanie McGraw? Where would all this be if Watson had been objective and not drawn a false dichotomy where you either agree with Watson or you are a misogynist. Where would this all be if Watson had said, "this is how I feel when I am alone with a man in an elevator and he asks me for coffee, IMO men should avoid approaching women in a confined space".

Where would this be if RW had dialed back her ego and sought common ground rather than tell her detractors to get a sex doll.

 

[Brainache]

Perhaps not but hubris played a big part.

Where would all this be if Watson hadn't called out Stefanie McGraw? Where would all this be if Watson had been objective and not drawn a false dichotomy where you either agree with Watson or you are a misogynist. Where would this all be if Watson had said, "this is how I feel when I am alone with a man in an elevator and he asks me for coffee, IMO men should avoid approaching women in a confined space".

Where would this be if RW had dialed back her ego and sought common ground rather than tell her detractors to get a sex doll.

Where would all this be if RW hadn't banned Scrut?

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

In this thread a person os put on suspension for failing to adhere to "the sociological" definition of racism. And don't you dare tell them that Sociology is a soft science!

Forget Watson, can anyone tell me what Sociology has ever done ?

 

[recursive prophet]

Has anyone explored the possibility that elevator guy was a figment of RW's imagination? I mean, he was likely at the conference, and I find it hard to believe would be unaware of the brouhaha his invitation created. Wouldn't he want to speak out and give his side of the event?

Also, does anyone know if the hotel they were in had a coffee shop or whatever that would have been open at the time? That was my original impression. That he had invited her to have a cup of coffee, and it was definitely to a public place in the hotel or nearby. When did the story change to having coffee in his room?

Sorry if this is old news, but I haven't really spent much time looking into the RW saga, and seeing someone claim he asked her back to his room at A+ made me wonder.

 

[Quinn]

Forget Watson, can anyone tell me what Sociology has ever done ?

[raises hand] The aqueduct?

 

[Empress]

Has anyone explored the possibility that elevator guy was a figment of RW's imagination? I mean, he was likely at the conference, and I find it hard to believe would be unaware of the brouhaha his invitation created. Wouldn't he want to speak out and give his side of the event?

Also, does anyone know if the hotel they were in had a coffee shop or whatever that would have been open at the time? That was my original impression. That he had invited her to have a cup of coffee, and it was definitely to a public place in the hotel or nearby. When did the story change to having coffee in his room?

Sorry if this is old news, but I haven't really spent much time looking into the RW saga, and seeing someone claim he asked her back to his room at A+ made me wonder.

I was under the impression that it was always implied as coffee in his room, although I admit I never followed the story.

As for ElevatorGuy, I've long suspected the story was made up to prove a point. Was just more impressive to say "this happened and I was uncomfortable" rather than "this could happen and I would be uncomfortable".

No proof either way, to my knowledge, but RW has been caught being less-than-truthful on occasion, so I'm not someone to rush to believe her every word, nor to pay her much mind.