Julian Assange: rapist or not?

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I guess the conspiracy theory espoused by Skeptic Ginger, John Mekki, Zeuzz, and others is that the CIA will phone Sweden and call off the rape thing, and Sweden will phone the UK and call off the extradition thing, and the UK will call Ecuador and let them know Assange is off the hook. Assange, now free to board a plane for Australia and take up his duties as elected representative of Bum Frack Oz, will walk out the front door of the Ecuadorian embassy... and promptly be assassinated in the face by the CIA.

Wait, what?
Don't tell lies about my position.

I said it's reasonable for Assange to fear the US will extradite him from Sweden, and I said, the US is capable given their extraordinary rendition, imprisoning and torturing at least 2 innocent people and their treatment of Bradley Manning.

I do not know if the US has conspired with Sweden.
 
You know, just once I'd like someone to produce evidence of this so-called vendetta of the US against Assange that DOESN'T indicate some form of mental delusion on Assange's part.

Sure, there have been INDIVIDUAL politicians who have been calling for his head, but there is absolutely no indication that the US Department of Justice is currently involved in any kind of criminal investigation where Assange is named as a suspect. Investigating Wikileaks, sure; but last I checked, Assange is not the entire organization and in fact has little to do with the daily running of the organization, such as it is, and most of the people who have experience with the law have indicated that should the US attempt to pursue a case, espionage or otherwise, against Assange, they'd be chasing their tails. I think the worst thing we could possibly get him on is being an accessory to Manning's crime of allowing classified material to be released to persons not authorized to possess or view it, and that ain't exactly a charge that would end with Assange's death (or even much jail time, since it can pretty easily be proved that Manning gave the material to Wikileaks of his own free will and wasn't coerced by them to do it). I don't even think we have much of a case against Wikileaks itself. In reality, it's much easier for us to simply sit back and watch Assange implode from his own narcissistic paranoia. He's well on his way to showing just how irrelevant he is without any help from the US.
And why would you think Assange was immune from what the US is known to have done to other people, specifically, extraordinary rendition, imprisoning and torturing at least 2 innocent people, and their treatment of Bradley Manning?

Why do you suppose the US has been so concerned with Bradley Manning's alleged crimes?
 
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Don't tell lies about my position.

I said it's reasonable for Assange to fear the US will extradite him from Sweden, and I said, the US is capable given their extraordinary rendition, imprisoning and torturing at least 2 innocent people and their treatment of Bradley Manning.

It's equally reasonable for Assange to fear getting hit on the head by a meteorite. Do you think it would be reasonable for Assange to retreat to an underground bunker for that reason?

I do not know if the US has conspired with Sweden.

Do you think it's likely (as in, better than 1% chance) that the US has conspired with Sweden to get Assange extradited - knowing full well that it's easier to get him extradited from the UK?
 
And why would you think Assange was immune from what the US is known to have done to other people, specifically, extraordinary rendition, imprisoning and torturing at least 2 innocent people, and their treatment of Bradley Manning?

Why do you suppose the US has been so concerned with Bradley Manning's alleged crimes?

The US has been concerned with Bradley Manning's (actual) crimes because they are seen as threatening national security. Quite understandably so.

The only people Assange is a threat to is women.
 
Well, women who dare to use birth control are certainly at risk. The nerve of them, trying to sabotage the Assange master plan for superior seed distribution!
 
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It's equally reasonable for Assange to fear getting hit on the head by a meteorite. ....
No it is not equally reasonable.

I ask you the same question I asked Sabrina, why would you think Assange was immune from what the US is known to have done to other people, specifically, extraordinary rendition, imprisoning and torturing at least 2 innocent people, and their treatment of Bradley Manning?
 
The US has been concerned with Bradley Manning's (actual) crimes because they are seen as threatening national security. Quite understandably so.

The only people Assange is a threat to is women.
So the person who Manning used to disseminate the information deemed a threat to national security is of no concern to the US?
 
For those who didn't know or were too young at the time: Pentagon Papers
Times v. United States is generally considered a victory for an extensive reading of the First Amendment, but as the Supreme Court ruled on whether the government had made a successful case for prior restraint, its decision did not void the Espionage Act or give the press unlimited freedom to publish classified documents. Ellsberg and Russo were not acquitted of violating the Espionage Act; they were freed due to a mistrial from irregularities in the government's case.[5]

And that was before the USA PATRIOT Act.

WikiLeaks: U.S. Seeks Assange Info Through Patriot Act
The United States Department of Homeland Security issued a production order, which essentially acts as a subpoena, at Wikileaks' California Domain Name System server, Dynadot. WikiLeaks reports that the server is complying with the American government.

The production order comes on the same day of WikiLeaks releasing another batch of cables - this time 35,000 - primarily culled from U.S. embassies in China and Libya....

...The production order intended for information for a U.S. Grand Jury in Alexandria, Va., could be the first major step by the United States government in labeling WikiLeaks a terrorist organization. The U.S. Patriot Act was put in place by former President George W. Bush on Oct. 26, 2001 after the terroristic attacks on U.S. soil on Sept. 11.

It's ludicrous for people in this thread who call themselves 'skeptics' to dismiss the US's concern with Assange, Wikileaks, and Manning.
 
oo, bolding. I'm so much more convinced of your argument.
I bold things because I know people skim. There's no more significance than that. If you are that naive about the facts, that's your problem.

But I notice there have been no answers yet to my question, what about extraordinary rendition, imprisoning and torturing at least 2 innocent people and the US government's treatment of Bradley Manning?
 
No it is not equally reasonable.

I ask you the same question I asked Sabrina, why would you think Assange was immune from what the US is known to have done to other people, specifically, extraordinary rendition, imprisoning and torturing at least 2 innocent people, and their treatment of Bradley Manning?

Why would the US do that? Kidnap a well known person? I'd say it's more likely he'll get hit with a meteorite.
 
But I notice there have been no answers yet to my question, what about extraordinary rendition, imprisoning and torturing at least 2 innocent people and the US government's treatment of Bradley Manning?

Seriously, Ginger, if you are so sold on this conspiracy theory, please explain why the rogue state of the US (that's basically what you're saying) would go to the trouble of pressuring two sovereign countries and allies into drumming up false charges just to get Assange extradited? Why not just rub him out? That's what Russia does.
 
]But I notice there have been no answers yet to my question, what about extraordinary rendition, imprisoning and torturing at least 2 innocent people and the US government's treatment of Bradley Manning?

You mean you've ignored all the discussion about that, and the finding of that argument being wanting.
 
No it is not equally reasonable.

I ask you the same question I asked Sabrina, why would you think Assange was immune from what the US is known to have done to other people, specifically, extraordinary rendition, imprisoning and torturing at least 2 innocent people, and their treatment of Bradley Manning?

But then we are back to the key point that it is harder for the US to get him from Sweden than the UK.

Even if we are talking ER...because the UK was complicit in that, so at least we have form.

So once again we are left with it being more likely that JA would be snatched from the country he was trying to stay in than from the country where he is wanted under rape charges.

Whatever way you want to view this it still looks remarkably like Assange is avoiding going to Sweden because of those charges, and anything else is nonsense to try and disguise that fact.
 
Seriously, Ginger, if you are so sold on this conspiracy theory, please explain why the rogue state of the US (that's basically what you're saying) would go to the trouble of pressuring two sovereign countries and allies into drumming up false charges just to get Assange extradited? Why not just rub him out? That's what Russia does.

One drone would do it.

Conspiracy theorists always go for the most convoluted scheme possible:

Trump up a rape charge

Force Sweden to ask for his return

Kidnap him secretly and kill him.


Vs

One drone.
 
But then we are back to the key point that it is harder for the US to get him from Sweden than the UK.

Even if we are talking ER...because the UK was complicit in that, so at least we have form.

So once again we are left with it being more likely that JA would be snatched from the country he was trying to stay in than from the country where he is wanted under rape charges.

Whatever way you want to view this it still looks remarkably like Assange is avoiding going to Sweden because of those charges, and anything else is nonsense to try and disguise that fact.

Most of this nonsense just consists in saying "The US is evil!" over and over with a few variations.
 
So the person who Manning used to disseminate the information deemed a threat to national security is of no concern to the US?

Is Assange Wikileaks or is Assange not Wikileaks? Whether he is or not seems to change depending on what you want to argue.
 
uke2se said:
No it is not equally reasonable.

I ask you the same question I asked Sabrina, why would you think Assange was immune from what the US is known to have done to other people, specifically, extraordinary rendition, imprisoning and torturing at least 2 innocent people, and their treatment of Bradley Manning?

Why would the US do that? Kidnap a well known person? I'd say it's more likely he'll get hit with a meteorite.
Aha! I get it now. That was the U.S. doing a test firing of their secret Assange assassination weapon in Russia.
 
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