LDS

[abaddon]

What Joseph Smith had to say about the matter is irrelevant.

Is the Bible wrong about who created evil or not?

You will get no answer beyond "godunnit" and likely an irrelevant babble quote.

 

[skyrider44]

skyrider44, your colons are back. Why do you insert them into quotes? I've asked previously and others expressed some interest so I'm unable to understand why you don't have the courtesy to respond. Is it some secret Mormon doctrine about "Thy shalt not leave unused colons lying around."?

Only the Shadow knows.

Meanwhile, I'm unable to understand why you lack the courtesy to avoid mocking my faith.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

How do you know which post she refers to?

Because it was in response to a response to a response to a response to that post that she decided to put her fingers in her ears and babble "off topic!" over and over again.

The thread's moving too fast for the post in question to be in the recent posts list here on the reply page, but it was the somewhat offensively-worded one about how uberChristians who seek office to enforce their morality should not be allowed to do so, to which she replied that was a Satanic agenda with anti-God immorality, to which people took offense that she was calling atheists immoral, to which she replied that she never used the literal word "atheist," to which people started lining up to say that she damn well meant that, to which she never responded directly because offtopic offtopic offtopic.

Is it some secret Mormon doctrine about "Thy shalt not leave unused colons lying around."?

"Thou shalt make use of thy brother's colon."

Makes at least as much sense as the bit about hot drinks.

 

[Akhenaten]

Meanwhile, I'm unable to understand why you lack the courtesy to avoid mocking my faith.

One reason - possibly the main one - is that those to whom faith is more important than reason would have it that their beliefs occupy some special level of thought that grants them immunity from the mockery of those who know better and a healthy reminder that this is not so is always in order.

 

[deaman]

The whole religion thing is so exclusive and egotistical.

Believer:

Don't you know that the god of the universe picked me, ME, because I am so special. I have been given the answer to all of life. Don't you know? With all the billions of galaxies and space, god chose me.

You? You're going to hell.

 

[Akhenaten]

Are you completely out of touch with your faithless colleagues?

Not from where I'm reading.

Apparently so. Because that is what they, themselves, say after jettisoning God.

Your apparent assumption that atheists arrive at that happy position only after jettisoning your imaginary creature tells us who is actually out of touch here.

Isn't there a local atheist group you can join that would enable you to get up to speed?

One doesn't need to belong to a group to embrace a lack of belief in gods.

It's the bleevers who need the security of the herd to help them fend off their superstitious fears.

 

[Akhenaten]

The whole religion thing is so exclusive and egotistical.

Believer:

Don't you know that the god of the universe picked me, ME, because I am so special. I have been given the answer to all of life. Don't you know? With all the billions of galaxies and space, god chose me.

You? You're going to hell.

And, as has been demonstrated by this thread, some LDS bleevers consider themselves to be an order of magnitude more special again.

 

[RandFan]

BTW, is the traditional practice extant in our courts of law for witnesses to place their hands on the Bible (gasp!) and swear to "tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth"? You and SV might want to do some research.

Wha are you talking about?

 

[Craig4]

The originating post from asydhouse was off topic to this thread, as are all responses to it.

Or to translate: There is a slight possibility I may have to face to reality that my entire belief system is a shabby lie.

 

[tsig]

Just out of curiosity, what do you believe the topic of the thread to be?

It was supposed to go:

OP "I am sure in my testimony that Joesph Smith was a prophet of god"


Us "Amen, amen"


"I testify that the BoM is the word of god"

Us "Amen, amen"


Ect., ect., ect.

 

[Empress]

BTW, is the traditional practice extant in our courts of law for witnesses to place their hands on the Bible (gasp!) and swear to "tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth"? You and SV might want to do some research.

I confess to being at a loss as to what this has to do with anything, but I've never put my hand on the Bible or anything else to give testimony in court. I have been sworn both using the phrase "so help you God" and without it, however. Speaking solely for Florida, it seems to be up to the judge whether or not s/he wishes to include that portion, although I've never actually asked.

So what about all those things in the BoM that have since been discovered that proved JS was telling the truth? Any chance you're going to enumerate those for us any time soon?

 

[The Norseman]

BTW, is the traditional practice extant in our courts of law for witnesses to place their hands on the Bible (gasp!) and swear to "tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth"? You and SV might want to do some research.

How much research have you done on this subject? I'm certain that you can tell me what the Constitution says (if anything) on this matter or any Supreme Court decisions that may have been made, right? How about what the state constitutions say about making oaths in court (if anything)?

Enlighten us, please.

 

[Akhenaten]

How much research have you done on this subject? I'm certain that you can tell me what the Constitution says (if anything) on this matter or any Supreme Court decisions that may have been made, right? How about what the state constitutions say about making oaths in court (if anything)?

Enlighten us, please.

I'd be interested in the results of skyrider44's research into the situation vis-a-vis swearing oaths on the Bible in the rather extensive bit of the world that isn't the USA.

Iran, for instance. India? China? Australia?

 

[pakeha]

^
Or Spain, where oaths can be taken 'por mi honor', on my honour.

 

[pakeha]

That implies that Smith was fluent in Greek so he knew what the original writers wrote. Was he multilingual?

And the Hebrew of the OT.

They are a tiny piece of a mosaic that, when combined with a myriad of other pieces, point to the existence of God. Do you remember the renowned British atheist who, in his late 70s and early 80s, finally realized that the universe had to be designed. . .had to be. He pointed out that rather than disproving God's existence, advances in science tend to do the opposite; hence, recent discoveries that there are "zillions" of universes (and, ahem, they all came about by accident). The more science discovers, the more questions it raises. Finally, it cannot answer the fundamental question that is the core of all philosophical thought: why is there anything?

Could you give a source for that quotation, please?

A better version reads, "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."

BTW, what is your source for the quotation?

The source is from the link given in this post of yours

You're correct; my error. Data on the lifespans of atheists and theists appear to be less than clear (culture is a critical factor). Data re. the suicide rate of atheists vs. theists is, however, perfectly clear: "Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide that subjects who endorsed religious affiliation. . . Subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. [Atheists] had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder." (www.adherents.com/misc/religion_suicide.html)

This is one of several links that posit the same conclusion.

And here I thought the atheist lifestyle was carefree and brim with joy, the adherents having been freed of the guilt and self-denial that attends theists.

...So what about all those things in the BoM that have since been discovered that proved JS was telling the truth? Any chance you're going to enumerate those for us any time soon?

Yes.
I'm also waiting for this, too.

 

[pakeha]

We are each responsible for our own salvation. The opportunities have been presented, and choices have been made NOT to understand, consider, believe, accept nor to listen. But to instead scorn, ridicule and belittle that which is sacred. The consequences of these choices are upon those who have made them, not upon the Lord's servants.
“Know this, that every soul is free
To choose his life and what he’ll be,
For this eternal truth is given
That God will force no man to heav’n."

Hi, Janadele.
You wrote "scorn, ridicule and belittle that which is sacred."
You cannot possibly believe a scamming lie to be sacred.

Smith's 'translations' are demonstrable scams and can by no means be considered sacred.

Or to translate: There is a slight possibility I may have to face to reality that my entire belief system is a shabby lie.

You've raised a good point.
Victims of 419 scams exhibit a wide range of behaviours when brought to see they've dedicated years and large sums of money to a lie. It will be interesting to see if our Mormons show similar reactions.

...So what about all those things in the BoM that have since been discovered that proved JS was telling the truth? Any chance you're going to enumerate those for us any time soon?

Yes, skyrider44, please tell us about them.

 

[Pixel42]

Could you give a source for that quotation, please?

Probably a reference to Antony Flew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antony_Flew

In an interview with Joan Bakewell for BBC Radio 4 in March 2005, Flew rejected the fine-tuning argument as a conclusive proof: "I don't think it proves anything but that it is entirely reasonable for people who already have a belief in a creating God to regard this as confirming evidence. And it's a point of argument which I think is very important – to see that what is reasonable for people to do in the face of new evidence depends on what they previously had good reason to believe." He also said it appeared that there had been progress made regarding the naturalistic origins of DNA. However, he restated his deism, with the usual provisos that his God is not the God of any of the revealed religions.[27] In the same interview, Flew was asked whether he was retracting belief in an Aristotelian God, but answered no.

 

[pakeha]

Thanks, Pixel42.
Off to read more.

 

[zooterkin]

They are a tiny piece of a mosaic that, when combined with a myriad of other pieces, point to the existence of God.

No, really, they don't.

Do you remember the renowned British atheist who, in his late 70s and early 80s, finally realized that the universe had to be designed. . .had to be. He pointed out that rather than disproving God's existence, advances in science tend to do the opposite; hence, recent discoveries that there are "zillions" of universes (and, ahem, they all came about by accident). The more science discovers, the more questions it raises. Finally, it cannot answer the fundamental question that is the core of all philosophical thought: why is there anything?

No, I don't. Do you think you could provide any sort of reference to who it actually was, and what they really said?

 

[SezMe]

Only the Shadow knows.

Could you ask him/her to register here and let us know.

Meanwhile, I'm unable to understand why you lack the courtesy to avoid mocking my faith.

I'm hard pressed to think of any of the nuttery around here that hasn't been mocked and I see no reason to exclude Mormonism.

ETA: Or, far better, see Akhenaten's post 3698. Egyptian gods are so damn eloquent.