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pakeha said:
What I'm trying to get across here is the the comparison we should be making here is not to another religion (after all, seriously, who really cares?) but to other scams.
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Sheesh, Pakeha, it's been obvious all along that Pup was simply commenting that "corrupting the bible" isn't much of an accusation, since the bible is already corrupt, and virtually on the same footing as the BoM as scams go anyway.

In other words, all the churches are scams!

All this lawyeresque nit-picking is a waste of everyone's energy.
 
Of course all churches are scams, Asydhouse!
There's question about that and I'm sorry to be unclear.

The LDS is based on a demonstrable falsification perpetrated in the 19th century.
I'm genuinely curious about the mentality of people who have fallen for this particular hoax. I've had to deal with victims of scams and the reactions of the Mormons here fit snugly into that 'type' of behaviour.
Again, sorry to be unclear!
 
Agatha said:
Janadele... Is the bible wrong?
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Human language is imperfect, so no text in human language can be transcendently perfect and complete, however that does not preclude the text originating from a perfect Being.

Joseph Smith said: I believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers. Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors. [Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.327]
 
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Janadele said:
Human language is imperfect, so no text in human language can be transcendently perfect and complete, however that does not preclude the text originating from a perfect Being.

Joseph Smith said: I believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers. Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors. [Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.327]
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So...
"Horse" means "deer", or "tapir", or maybe even "cameloid";
"steel" means "bronze", or "obsidian", or maybe even "metroridic nickel-iron";
"barley" means "maize", or something else entirely...
...and so on?
 
Janadele said:
Akhenaten said:
... Could you please provide a link?
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Joseph was murdered before completing his translation of the Bible.
Some excerpts available: http://www.lds.org/scriptures/jst?lang=eng

The incomplete Translation in entirety may be purchased at Deseret or Seagull Bookshops.
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I have no idea what question you think you're answering here, if any, but it's most certainly not the one I asked you.


ie.

Akhenaten said:
Janadele said:
All questions being asked have already been answered.
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I can't seem to find your answer to this:


Akhenaten said:
Are you claiming, then, that this:

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.​


is a mistranslation?

If so, then:


  1. how do you know, and

  2. what is the correct translation?
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Could you please provide a link?
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I'd suggest you have another go, although it's dollars to doughnuts you won't do any better.
 
Janadele said:
Human language is imperfect, so no text in human language can be transcendently perfect and complete, however that does not preclude the text originating from a perfect Being.
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What precludes the text originating from a perfect being is that there's no such thing.


Janadele said:
Joseph Smith said:

<snip>
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A great many things. One or two of them may have even been true, but I doubt it.
 
Janadele said:
Human language is imperfect, so no text in human language can be transcendently perfect and complete, however that does not preclude the text originating from a perfect Being.
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Indeed. That's why we've learned to gain knowledge by observing Creation itself, which is not limited by imperfect and incomplete human language.

It was Creation that taught us that the earth is spherical and orbits around the sun, that the earth is billions of years old, that there is no transparent dome in the sky holding the stars up, that all life on earth descended from common ancestors going back into the distant past, that disease is caused by microorganisms and by malfunctions in the molecular machinery of life rather than by sin or devils, that the native peoples of the Americas are not descendants of a lost tribe of Israel, that black skin is an adaptation to regional climate conditions over many millennia rather than a curse of God (and the same is true of white skin), that fire burns and the sun shines and birds soar aloft by means of consistent principles that we can understand and put to use, and that the most complex behavior can arise from the simplest systems.

You can't learn these things correctly from imperfect incomplete scriptures. But Creation does not lie, and it doesn't go away when you close your eyes, and no bishop or prophet can declare it heretical.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
The reference to Isaiah has led me to an interesting bit of controversy. Thirteen consecutive chapters from Isaiah in the Bible appear in 2 Nephi in the Book of Mormon with only minor, infrequent word changes.

How could this be? Did the biblical scholars of King James' time also use seer stones, but only for those 13 chapters, which resulted in nearly identical sacred scriptures? Or is the more likely explanation the truth, that Joseph Smith plagiarized.
 
Janadele said:
Human language is imperfect, so no text in human language can be transcendently perfect and complete, however that does not preclude the text originating from a perfect Being.

Joseph Smith said: I believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers. Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors. [Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.327]
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Wow, Smith got something right half way. Who would have thought that possible? Translators changed the Bible. Obviously a lowly con man wasn't going to get it "right" but it's good he noticed one of many problems with the Bible. Of course if you get it "right" you're still just left book of made up stories.

I wonder if the lying little bastard was going to provide his source documents when he finished the "translation". I'm guessing not since he he didn't show anyone the plates.

It's true, there are two ways to get high, one is drugs and the other religion.
 
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jsfisher said:
The reference to Isaiah has led me to an interesting bit of controversy. Thirteen consecutive chapters from Isaiah in the Bible appear in 2 Nephi in the Book of Mormon with only minor, infrequent word changes.

How could this be? Did the biblical scholars of King James' time also use seer stones, but only for those 13 chapters, which resulted in nearly identical sacred scriptures? Or is the more likely explanation the truth, that Joseph Smith plagiarized.
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Do our Mormon friends understand the problem being highlighted here? I am having trouble imagining the mental gymnastics required to explain this one. Would anyone care to take a shot?
 
jsfisher said:
The reference to Isaiah has led me to an interesting bit of controversy. Thirteen consecutive chapters from Isaiah in the Bible appear in 2 Nephi in the Book of Mormon with only minor, infrequent word changes.

How could this be? Did the biblical scholars of King James' time also use seer stones, but only for those 13 chapters, which resulted in nearly identical sacred scriptures? Or is the more likely explanation the truth, that Joseph Smith plagiarized.
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Smith's con is so crass on so many levels this hardly even surprises, does it?
 
Those 13 sections were REALLY important so God wrote them down again just to make sure we wouldn't forget.

I didn't say it was a good explanation.
 
When I stated earlier the witching stones were used to corrupt the bible, I was cramming all the, shall not suffer a witch/no more prophets/reformed Egyptian BoA Claptrap.

I understend the bible is imaginary, but to believers, messing with the bible is immoral.
 
Akhenaten said:
Are you claiming, then, that this:

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.​


is a mistranslation?
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Of course it was a mis-translation. If you had bothered to check The Inspired Version of the Bible, you would have noted that Joseph Smith completely revised the passage to correct the blatant mistakes:

Isiah 45:7 (inspired version)

I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I the Lord do all these things.​

Note the subtle differences.
 
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