LDS

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RandFan said:
It's turtles all the way down deaman. There was no beginning. The passion play being played out on Earth is happening throughout the known universe and perhaps in other universes. God was once a man living on another planet. He was righteous and so he became a god. Someday Janedele will become a goddess. She will marry a man who has many other goddesses as wives. They will procreate spirits and the cycle of spirit life will perpetuate for eternity worlds without end.
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So it's vaginas all the way down?
 
Pup said:
We are, if we're talking about whether one man "corrupted" another religion's Bible by writing his own books--and I'm not the one who first brought that up.



It seems to bother you any time I point out that other religions do similar things as the LDS church. I don't understand it. There's no requirement that posters in this thread must make the LDS church look uniquely worse, by avoiding any comparison that puts other religions in an equally bad light.

There are lots of faithful Christians who charge the LDS Church with doing exactly what Dinwar said: corrupting the Bible. It seems on-topic to point out that that's an accusation which is only valid if one believes the Bible to be sacred.

If you think that corrupting the Bible is morally wrong, well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Non-LDS Christians, however, will sometimes get more upset at that point than anything else, which seems ironic because the founders of their faith did exactly the same thing--corrupted another religion's Torah with their own new books.
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Thread title: LDS

Not: other religions are as bad as the LDS



See the difference
 
tsig said:
Thread title: LDS

Not: other religions are as bad as the LDS

See the difference
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If we're going to interpret the thread title so narrowly that no comparing-and-contrasting is allowed, then "Evil like using witching stones to corrupt the bible" has the same problem, since it's talking about what the LDS church did to other religions which rely on the Bible. Yet that apparently didn't seem off topic.

Personally, I think it's well within the realm of discussion, since the negative reaction the LDS church got from other believers became a significant factor in the church's development and history.

I'm just really surprised to see a thread that's dominated by atheists, agnostics, and other non-believers include such a Christian-based worldview, as if corrupting the Bible is a real evil, on the same level as deceit or sexual predation. It's like saying that it's evil to corrupt Harry Potter. Silly, pointless, unnecessary, poor judgment because it will make the fans hate you, sure. But evil? :confused: I just can't comprehend such a thing.

Oh well, guess I just don't get it.
 
Janadele said:
Agatha said:
Janadele... Is the bible wrong?
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Unfortunately, there are many mistranslations in the Bible in use today, it is only true as far as it has been translated correctly.
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Are you claiming, then, that this:

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.​


is a mistranslation?

If so, then:


  1. how do you know, and

  2. what is the correct translation?
 
Janadele said:
All questions being asked have already been answered.
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I can't seem to find your answer to this:


Akhenaten said:
Are you claiming, then, that this:

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.​


is a mistranslation?

If so, then:


  1. how do you know, and

  2. what is the correct translation?
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Could you please provide a link?
 
Janadele said:
Unfortunately, there are many mistranslations in the Bible in use today, it is only true as far as it has been translated correctly.
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You mean like the entire OT where Yahweh is a creep of the first water and far more evil than any devil anyone could conceive of? Venerate Yahweh if you care to, Janadele, but even if he was real, I would not give him the time of day. Your god is not worthy of me.
 
bruto said:
One of the reasons I do not regret my lack of faith is that Christians these days seem so overwhelmingly to believe that religion and right wing politics are identical.
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I'm not sure, bruto. It may just be that the Christian right is more vocal, more political and far, far better funded.
 
Akhenaten said:
Are you claiming, then, that this:

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.​


is a mistranslation?

If so, then:


  1. how do you know, and

  2. what is the correct translation?
Click to expand...

I'll add my voice to this question.
Any Mormon care to answer it?
 
RandFan said:
No. Spirits are born in the pre-mortal existence. The are sent to live a mortal existence to be tested. If they are obedient they can go to the top level of heaven known as the Celestial kingdom and become gods. If not they go to one of the other two levels. Those who become gods perpetuate the cycle by having new spirit children.
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Fascinating.
Thank you very much for clearing up my question.


Pup said:
We are, if we're talking about whether one man "corrupted" another religion's Bible by writing his own books--and I'm not the one who first brought that up.
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That's an interesting strawman argument, Pup.
We're talking about a man who deliberately passed off a false translation of papyrus texts as a sacred book.
That is a scam.




Pup said:
It seems to bother you any time I point out that other religions do similar things as the LDS church. I don't understand it. There's no requirement that posters in this thread must make the LDS church look uniquely worse, by avoiding any comparison that puts other religions in an equally bad light.

There are lots of faithful Christians who charge the LDS Church with doing exactly what Dinwar said: corrupting the Bible. It seems on-topic to point out that that's an accusation which is only valid if one believes the Bible to be sacred.
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I think you missing my point- a scam is a scam.
Are you really justifying a scam by saying others do it?
Do you really think that's an intellectually honest approach?

Pup said:
If you think that corrupting the Bible is morally wrong, well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Non-LDS Christians, however, will sometimes get more upset at that point than anything else, which seems ironic because the founders of their faith did exactly the same thing--corrupted another religion's Torah with their own new books.
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I'd ask you to try to imagine there are posters here, I among them, who feel strongly about intellectual honesty and simply find Smith's scam to be repugnant.
Claiming to 'translate' gold plates or papyrii then impressing them on the gullible as sacred is as disgusting as any 419 scammer bilking the unwary of millions of dollars.

What I'm trying to get across here is the the comparison we should be making here is not to another religion (after all, seriously, who really cares?) but to other scams.




Pup said:
If we're going to interpret the thread title so narrowly that no comparing-and-contrasting is allowed, then "Evil like using witching stones to corrupt the bible" has the same problem, since it's talking about what the LDS church did to other religions which rely on the Bible. Yet that apparently didn't seem off topic.
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I can see your point, but I have the impression you are deflecting attention from the discussion of a deliberate scam.


Pup said:
Personally, I think it's well within the realm of discussion, since the negative reaction the LDS church got from other believers became a significant factor in the church's development and history.[/QUOTE
A very good point!
Are you talking about the negative reaction to Smith's 'translations'?


Pup said:
I'm just really surprised to see a thread that's dominated by atheists, agnostics, and other non-believers include such a Christian-based worldview, as if corrupting the Bible is a real evil, on the same level as deceit or sexual predation. It's like saying that it's evil to corrupt Harry Potter. Silly, pointless, unnecessary, poor judgment because it will make the fans hate you, sure. But evil? :confused: I just can't comprehend such a thing.

Oh well, guess I just don't get it.
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It's about a deliberate scam, designed to manipulate the gullible.
Whenever and wherever this happens, it's outrageous.
One thing is stupid fan-fic, another is claiming to have special knowledge of a given deity's message.
And selling it as such.
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