Would You Take Driving Points For Someone Else?

I recall there was a bit of controversy about being required to name the driver when a speeding offence was alleged, as it could be incriminating oneself. However, if I understand correctly it has been held by the courts not to be an infringement of human rights so you must provide those details.
 
Anglolawyer could probably tell you more, but I doubt he qualifies for legal aid, so he'll have to pay his defence costs at the very least. PCoJ is almost always custodial, I'll have a look to see if a fine can be associated with it as well.

I recall there was a bit of controversy about being required to name the driver when a speeding offence was alleged, as it could be incriminating oneself. However, if I understand correctly it has been held by the courts not to be an infringement of human rights so you must provide those details.

I vaguely remember that. I guess the law would be unenforceable if we didn't have to fill in the form so that a greater harm would result than this minor intrusion into our liberty.
 
I recall there was a bit of controversy about being required to name the driver when a speeding offence was alleged, as it could be incriminating oneself. However, if I understand correctly it has been held by the courts not to be an infringement of human rights so you must provide those details.

I used to work for a residential school that had a pool of cars, cars which were used ad-hoc for ferrying students to+from their mainstream schools, recreational trips, picking up chocolate supplies for the evening shift (really!) and what-all.

Sometimes they'd get snared by a speed camera and it was a bitch of a job working out who was driving. The police became sick of this and threatened the school Principal with every point 'earned' by these cars.

You wouldn't believe how fast some damn draconian procedures for logging every trip, however trivial, were introduced. Failing to log a trip became a formal disciplinary offence for the shift-leader. Do it a few times and you'd be demoted or worse.

[/anecdote] but, yeah, the car owner is ultimately responsible, and should be.
 
I vaguely remember that. I guess the law would be unenforceable if we didn't have to fill in the form so that a greater harm would result than this minor intrusion into our liberty.

It went to the European Courts and they upheld it.
You get a a request to give information as to the identity of the driver under Section (S.172) Road Traffic Act 1988.
You have 28 days. If you don't name or give such information as you have then you are charged with failing.
By an ironic twist if you are caught at such a speed as to be in line for a ban then failing to name will get you 6 points instead.
This only works if you weren't stopped at the time by the police of course.

Scotland is different.
 
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I used to work for a residential school that had a pool of cars, cars which were used ad-hoc for ferrying students to+from their mainstream schools, recreational trips, picking up chocolate supplies for the evening shift (really!) and what-all.

Sometimes they'd get snared by a speed camera and it was a bitch of a job working out who was driving. The police became sick of this and threatened the school Principal with every point 'earned' by these cars.

You wouldn't believe how fast some damn draconian procedures for logging every trip, however trivial, were introduced. Failing to log a trip became a formal disciplinary offence for the shift-leader. Do it a few times and you'd be demoted or worse.

[/anecdote] but, yeah, the car owner is ultimately responsible, and should be.


If they were genuine 'company' cars then the company can't be given points, they get a fine of £1500 instead.
 
I may be a member of that same motorists' forum, Captain Swoop! I have a different name there.

Maximum sentence for PCoJ is life imprisonment, and the sentencing guidelines are worth a look.

I have the same name :) Not that I am an 'Expert' like some of the folks on there, I have an interest as I do a heck of a lot of miles a year.
 
I have the same name :) Not that I am an 'Expert' like some of the folks on there, I have an interest as I do a heck of a lot of miles a year.

What do the cops say when they stop you (for wiping out a bus stop queue of pensioners) and you say 'Captain Swoop'?:D
 
So how's this work anyway, did they switch seats while being pulled over, without the officer noticing?
 
And no one looked at the picture? Do those speeding cameras catch the driver, or just the plate?

I don't know about the UK, but in many places they aren't allowed to give a ticket unless the photo can id the specific driver.

ETA: I may be remembering this wrong, and it was just the points that aren't given without definite ID.
 
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They weren't pulled over. He was caught by a speed camera, then when the notice came though, they said it was her driving.

And all would have been well had she kept quiet but he left her for another woman and Pryce told a journalist. The story came to the attention of an opposing politician and the cops took it from there. And she was not in the passenger seat but somewhere else entirely as the cops were able to establish.
 
Depends on the type of camera. Some are rear facing, they get you after you went past, other are forward facing they get you as you approach. Even on a forward facing if there is glare on the windscreen then an ID may not be possible,.

They go by the reg number. They send a notice to the registered Keeper asking who was driving. IF it was the RK he coughs, if not he nominates the driver and they get their own notice.

Naming yourself isn't an admission of guilt, it is just stating that you were driving at the time of the alleged offense.

If you think you weren't speeding and you have evidence you can go to court, if you know it was you then you can take a 'Fixed Penalty' this is basically a bribe to admit guilt and deal with it quickly for a reduced fine over what you would get in court (£60 instead of £150 or more depending on your income plus costs) Same number of points

If you are stopped by the police for speeding they don't need to send a notice asking you to name the driver, they know who you are.
 
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I don't know about the UK, but in many places they aren't allowed to give a ticket unless the photo can id the specific driver.

ETA: I may be remembering this wrong, and it was just the points that aren't given without definite ID.
That's not how it works here.

Briefly (and not completely comprehensively), speed cameras take a picture of the vehicle, usually from the back but sometimes the front. Within 14 days (unless the registered keeper cannot be determined by that time), the registered keeper of the vehicle gets a Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) in the post, which requires them to state who was driving the car at the time of the alleged offence.

The RK has to furnish this information, within 28 days. They can ask for any pictures to help them identify who was driving, but the police don't have to supply the pictures and this request doesn't stop the clock running on the 28 days.

If they don't give the information they commit an offence under section 172 of the Road Traffic Act, for which they can be given 6 points and up to £1,000 fine, plus an MS90 code on their insurance which insurers do not like.

Assuming the RK has returned the NIP with information about the driver, some forces may look at the photographs and if a male driver has been nominated when it is clearly a female in the picture, they will go go back to the RK for clarification. Mostly, though, as long as the nominated driver is the holder of a UK licence and is resident in the country, the driver will then get his or own NIP. After that is returned, there are three things which may happen next, which depend on the detected speed.

1) If the speed is up to 10% of the permitted speed +9 (so 42 in a 30, 53 in a 40 etc) then the driver may be offered a speed awareness course instead of opting to go to court, which costs more than the standard fine but carries no points. Generally, a person can only do one speed awareness course in any three year period.

2)If the speed is greater than this but less than 25mph over the limit (20mph in a 30), they will be offered a standard fixed penalty £60 plus 3 points as an alternative to taking the matter to court. The offence code is SP30 (SP50 on a motorway), which insurers don't mind so much.

3) If the speed is greater than the limit plus 25 (though 50 in a 30), it's straight to court. There, magistrates follow sentencing guidelines which can be looked at here.

In all cases, a person who does not accept they were speeding can defend it in court, the idea of the fixed penalty system is to free up the courts and allow drivers to take a small penalty in return for not having the trouble and cost of court.

A driver amassing 12 penalty points in any three year period faces an automatic 6 month driving ban, though this can be reduced with a hardship plea.

So Mr Huhne was caught by a speeding camera, and as he already had 9 (or possibly more) points on his licence, he was facing an automatic six month ban. He then allegedly persuaded/coerced his wife into admitting that she was the driver on the NIP. She will have then been offered the SAC/3 points and £60, and she paid the fine and had the points put on her licence.

Now Huhne faces the end of his career and an almost certain term of imprisonment, which is a hell of a lot worse than a six month driving ban (which he may have been able to reduce with a good motoring lawyer like Nick Freeman). As an MP, even if he had lost his licence he could have afforded to take taxis or employ a driver, and as his constituency is very close to London he could have used the train to get to/from the House.

PCoJ is taken so seriously in this country that really, he has been the architect of his own misfortune.
 
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:confused:

Just how do you get speeding points transferred to someone else anyway?
 
They weren't pulled over. He was caught by a speed camera, then when the notice came though, they said it was her driving.
You lose points from a speed camera? And they rely on the honor system to determine who was driving?

Such a stupid law deserves to be gamed.
 
After months of claiming his innocence, Chris Huhne has plead guilty to peverting the course of justice:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21320992

I wonder he he will explain his sudden change of heart.

That his lawyers couldn't get certain evidence ruled out. I am flabbergasted that if he could have had certain text messages ruled inadmissible he would have continued to plea not-guilty.
 
That his lawyers couldn't get certain evidence ruled out. I am flabbergasted that if he could have had certain text messages ruled inadmissible he would have continued to plea not-guilty.

Why? It's just an incident of the presumption of innocence.
 

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