JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

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So was he a shooter or not?

He may have been, but there is more evidence that he was a set up Patsy.

"No sir, I didn't shoot anyone; I'm just a Patsy!!!!"-- Oswald

Funny, how this alleged "Lone Nutter" loser shoots the President in order to make a big name for himself, then denies he did it.
 
He may have been, but there is more evidence that he was a set up Patsy.

"No sir, I didn't shoot anyone; I'm just a Patsy!!!!"-- Oswald

Funny, how this alleged "Lone Nutter" loser shoots the President in order to make a big name for himself, then denies he did it.

LHO denying something is not evidence.

Evidence he intended to make a name for himself?
Evidence that lying about it to get away with it was not part of his intention?
Objective evidence of the set up?
 
"No sir, I didn't shoot anyone; I'm just a Patsy!!!!"-- Oswald

But just previously...

I've never refused to acknowledge Oswald as a possible shooter.

So you unequivocally believe Oswald when he says he's a patsy, but you say you're willing to doubt him when he says he never shot anybody.

How is this not cherry picking?
 
Oswald's Lie Detector Test--Objective Evidence

"No sir, I didn't shoot anybody...I'm just a Patsy"

Recording subjected to the Psychological Stress Evaluator by George O'Toole, a former CIA computer specialist, ("The Assassination Tapes,"). The PSE is a lie detector machine used by law enforcement agencies to test voice stress.
High stress = lie
Low stress = truth.

Oswald's voice showed low stress.
 
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"No sir, I didn't shoot anybody...I'm just a Patsy"

Recording subjected to the Psychological Stress Evaluator by George O'Toole, a former CIA computer specialist, ("The Assassination Tapes,"). The PSE is a lie detector machine used by law enforcement agencies to test voice stress.
High stress = lie
Low stress = truth.

Oswald's voice showed low stress.

OMG! That means he wasn't stressed!

Not much else, though.
 
"No sir, I didn't shoot anybody...I'm just a Patsy"

Recording subjected to the Psychological Stress Evaluator by George O'Toole, a former CIA computer specialist, ("The Assassination Tapes,"). The PSE is a lie detector machine used by law enforcement agencies to test voice stress.
High stress = lie
Low stress = truth.

Oswald's voice showed low stress.

That just means that Oswald believed it enough, or lied well enough to not be stressed. As Voice Stress Analysation is not entirely reliable to start with, and has serious limitations this is not as damning as you think.

It is still not objective evidence.
 
For which part of the sentence? The part you believe or the part you don't?

citizen_cane.gif
 
Not be taken seriously??? Well Arlen Spector took it very seriously in this memo to Lee Rankin:

Arlen Spector Memop to LeeRankin

MEMORANDUM

April 30, 1964

TO: Mr. J. Lee Rankin

FROM: Arlen Specter

SUBJECT: Autopsy Photographs and X-rays of President John F. Kennedy

"In my opinion it is indispensable that we obtain the photographs and x-rays of President Kennedy's autopsy for the following reasons:
1. THE COMMISSION SHOULD DETERMINE WITH CERTAINTY WHETHER THE SHOTS CAME FROM THE REAR. Someone from the Commission should review the films to corroborate the autopsy surgeons' testimony that the holes on the President's back and head had the characteristics of points of entry. None of the doctors at Parkland Hospital in Dallas observed the hole in the President's back or the small hole in the lower portion of his head. With all the outstanding controversy about the direction of the shots, there must be independent viewings of the films to verify testimony which has come only from Government doctors.


THE COMMISSION SHOULD DETERMINE WITH CERTAINTY THAT THERE ARE NO MAJOR VARIATIONS BETWEEN THE FILMS AND THE ARTIST'S DRAWINGS. Commission Exhibits Nos. 385, 386, and 388 were made from the recollections of the autopsy surgeons as told to the artist. Some day someone may compare the films with the artist's drawings and find a significant error which might substantially affect the essential testimony and the Commission's conclusions."

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shootft.htm

Indeed.


Moving the goalposts, Robert. You initially claimed Rydberg's drawing was relied upon to locate the wounds and that the WC conclusions were built upon the Rydberg drawings ("...the entire WC house of cards was built upon those fradulent drawings"). I established that was false, that Rydberg's drawings were described as schematic representations and that Cmdr. Humes even apologized for them at one point.

You are now arguing something different entirely, that the Warren Commission junior counsel (Arlen Specter) wanted the Commission to see the x-rays and autopsy photos - which is, of course, an entirely different argument than the one you first advanced and which, I presume by your attempt to move the goalposts, is now rebutted to your satisfaction.

Before we move on to what the Commission saw and didn't see, do let me know if your original claim ("...the entire WC house of cards was built upon those fradulent drawings") has been rebutted to your satisfaction.

Hank
 
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"No sir, I didn't shoot anybody...I'm just a Patsy"

Recording subjected to the Psychological Stress Evaluator by George O'Toole, a former CIA computer specialist, ("The Assassination Tapes,"). The PSE is a lie detector machine used by law enforcement agencies to test voice stress.
High stress = lie
Low stress = truth.

Oswald's voice showed low stress.

Pretend you never saw any of the rebuttal to this some more, Robert.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8072046&postcount=3524

When do you intend to do something besides reiterate the same rebutted claims?

Hank
 
The list Robert linked to, with those who have already failed to withstand scrutiny in the last 200 pages crossed out by myself.

1. KEMP CLARK, MD: Professor and Director of Neurological Surgery at Parkland

2, ROBERT McCLELLAND, MD:

3, MARION THOMAS JENKINS, MD:

4. CHARLES JAMES CARRICO, MD

5. MALCOLM PERRY, MD:

6. RONALD COY JONES: was a senior General Surgery resident physician

7. GENE AIKIN, MD: an anesthesiologist at Parkland

8. PAUL PETERS, MD: a resident physician

9. CHARLES CRENSHAW, MD: a resident physician

10. CHARLES RUFUS BAXTER, MD: a resident physician

11. ROBERT GROSSMAN, MD

12. RICHARD BROOKS DULANEY, MD: was a first year general surgery resident

13. ADOLPH GIESECKE, MD: an assistant professor of anesthesiology

14. FOUAD BASHOUR, MD: an associate professor of medicine

15. KENNETH EVERETT SALYER, MD: was an intern

16 PAT HUTTON, RN: a nurse

17. Nurse DIANA HAMILTON BOWRON
18. JOHN STRINGER: was the autopsy photographer.

19. MORTICIAN TOM ROBINSON

20. ROBERT FREDERICK KARNEI, MD: Bethesda pathologist,

21. PAUL KELLY O'CONNOR

22. JAMES CURTIS JENKINS

23. RICHARD A. LIPSEY: an aide to General Wehle (NOTE: NOT A MEDICAL WITNESS)

24. EDWARD REED: one of two X-ray technicians

25. JERROL CUSTER: the other X-ray technician

26. JAN GAIL RUDNICKI: Dr. Boswell's lab assistant

27. JAMES E. METZLER: was a hospital corpsman

28. JOHN EBERSOLE, MD: was Assistant Chief of Radiology

29, SAUNDRA KAY SPENCER (NOTE: Robert has been shown that the photographs Mrs Spencer claims she did not take are those produced before her "cleaned up" and "sanitised" versions from Mrs Spencers own testimony)

30. FLOYD RIEBE Despite Roberts misunderstanding the Occipital wound described coinforms with the WC conclusions.

31. JAN GAIL RUDNICKI: Dr. Boswell's lab assistant

32. Doris Nelson, a chief nurse at Parkland Hospital.

33. Surgeon David Stewart:

34. Dr. William H. Zedlitz,

35. Dr. Jackie Hansen Hunt, Anesthesiologist

36. Nurse Margaret M. Hinchliffe

37. Dr. Don Teel Curtis, Resident Oral Surgeon

38. Dr.Philip Williams

39. Billy Harper,Med Student.

40. WILLIAM PITZER, Navy x-ray technician

41. Joseph E.Hagan, Chief Asst. to Joseph H. Gawler, undertaker

A predictable cop-out. You fear discussing one witness so you hand wave at several. Your deletions are false and dishonest.


What did Pitzer say about the head wound, Robert?

What did Billy Harper say about the head wound?

Those guys are not good witnesses for your cause.

We can discuss all the witnesses you want, but many of those were discussed previously, and all you did was make the font larger and more colorful when reiterating your initial claims after they were rebutted. Others you simply ignored entirely. You tried claiming before that the line-outs throughout your listing is dishonest and no evidence was ever produced to show why they should be removed. Do you remember the post below?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8221707&postcount=6190

Hank
 
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What did Pitzer say about the head wound, Robert?

What did Billy Harper say about the head wound?

Those guys are not good witnesses for your cause.

We can discuss all the witnesses you want, but many of those were discussed previously, and all you did was make the font larger and more colorful when reiterating your initial claims after they were rebutted. Others you simply ignored entirely. You tried claiming before that the line-outs throughout your listing is dishonest and no evidence was ever produced to show why they should be removed. Do you remember the post below?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8221707&postcount=6190

Hank

Billy Harper is better than an eye-witness statement. He brought in the back of k"s skull. That's evidence of the blow-out. As to the others, one question or challenge at a time, please.
 
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Moving the goalposts, Robert. You initially claimed Rydberg's drawing was relied upon to locate the wounds and that the WC conclusions were built upon the Rydberg drawings ("...the entire WC house of cards was built upon those fradulent drawings"). I established that was false, that Rydberg's drawings were described as schematic representations and that Cmdr. Humes even apologized for them at one point.

You are now arguing something different entirely, that the Warren Commission junior counsel (Arlen Specter) wanted the Commission to see the x-rays and autopsy photos - which is, of course, an entirely different argument than the one you first advanced and which, I presume by your attempt to move the goalposts, is now rebutted to your satisfaction.

Before we move on to what the Commission saw and didn't see, do let me know if your original claim ("...the entire WC house of cards was built upon those fradulent drawings") has been rebutted to your satisfaction.

Hank

NO. Without the Rydberg drawings, the WC had nothing but words. With those drawings, they were able to illustrate to the themselves and to the public a false representation. The entire WC baloney rested upon those fictitious representations, and we have Rydberg's own affirmation of that fact.
 
What did Pitzer say about the head wound, Robert?

William Pitzer, head of the audio visual Dept.at Bethesda, didn't have to "say" anything. We know he was a witness to a small entry wound in the right temple and a large blow-out in the back of K's head because his associate, Petty Officer Dennis David said they both witnessed it on the cryptic autopsy film they both viewed together. But you can add Petty Officer Dennis David to the list of witnesses who observed the large blow-out in the back of K's head.

See The Men Who Killed Kennedy, at approximately 22:22.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI07govlUqI
 
Pretend you never saw any of the rebuttal to this some more, Robert.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8072046&postcount=3524

When do you intend to do something besides reiterate the same rebutted claims?

Hank

The question posed in the link:
"How many police departments use O'Toole's methodology for solving crimes?"

The PSE updated product is computerized and called the Computer Voice Stress Analyzer (CVSA). It is used by approximately 1800 law enforcement agencies.

"As of early 2008, the NITV® had approximately 1,800 local, state and federal law enforcement agencies using its CVSA® products. Additionally, the NITV® has trained US Military personnel. The CVSA® is currently being used under combat-conditions in military theaters worldwide. Further, the numbers of private CVSA® examiners are growing weekly."

But is the device fool-proof? Course not. But no law enforcement evidence tool is fool proof. Certainly not the polygraph, nor finger printing, nor even DNA. But Oswald's claim of innocence is consistent with the overwhelming evidence of a frame-up.
 
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