Continuation Part 4: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Grinder]

Damn, though, with Grinder winning these arguments, someone is going to have to rename Seattle to "New York City." He sure can win arguments.

Someone also has to alter the transcript of the court hearing, both the morning one and the afternoon one. The judge is in contempt of self for claiming that Frank was out at the airport in.... er, the New New York City, so as to distinguish it from the New York City on the east coast.

But Grinder, don't worry. This does not effect you winning.

Please produce the transcript.

Happy to be corrected with hard evidence.

Perhaps you can explain why HS detained him when he has no charges except the minor misdemeanor assault.

 

[Grinder]

The judge did accept that the defendant was detained by Homeland Security, but no information was available about where he was being held.

So you don't know where he was nor did the judge. His lawyer didn't know. The judge didn't know.

Also, as Bill said, the judge has no jurisdiction over Homeland Security. Even if the judge cared enough to get the defendant into court (he didn't) the chances he would have been able to persuade Homeland Security to release him were remote.

Is Frank still being held by HS in Seattle? Oh that's right it could be anywhere. I never indicated that Mckenna had power over HS but LE tends to work together. If one jurisdiction has someone sought after elsewhere they release them into the custody of that jurisdiction.

I doubt a day goes by that a defendant doesn't show up for a hearing. The important defendants are waiting for their hearings in jail; the court gets around to the other defendants as they present themselves, imposing penalties along the way.

There are no important defendants held for Muni Court. I already made the point that no one would arrest him in NYC for a Seattle misdemeanor. They are either released immediately or the have an in custody hearing where they get PR or some bail.

Frank is not a big story for King 5. They didn't even stay for the afternoon hearing, and it is doubtful the story about Frank being in court would have made the news. ETA: The number of news organizations that were contacted versus the number that showed up should tell you about the level of interest in the story.

I'm sure he wasn't that big of a story but mention of HS holding might have engendered interest.

So where is he? Why doesn't he come here and deal with it? Why did HS detain him?

 

[Bill Williams]

Please produce the transcript.

Happy to be corrected with hard evidence.

Perhaps you can explain why HS detained him when he has no charges except the minor misdemeanor assault.

Transcript is on IIP. Please note this does not effect you winning, regardless of what it says.

 

[Bill Williams]

So you don't know where he was nor did the judge. His lawyer didn't know. The judge didn't know.



Is Frank still being held by HS in Seattle? Oh that's right it could be anywhere. I never indicated that Mckenna had power over HS but LE tends to work together. If one jurisdiction has someone sought after elsewhere they release them into the custody of that jurisdiction.



There are no important defendants held for Muni Court. I already made the point that no one would arrest him in NYC for a Seattle misdemeanor. They are either released immediately or the have an in custody hearing where they get PR or some bail.



I'm sure he wasn't that big of a story but mention of HS holding might have engendered interest.

So where is he? Why doesn't he come here and deal with it? Why did HS detain him?

Please note. Regardless of the answers to these answers, Grinder wins.

 

[Mary_H]

So you don't know where he was nor did the judge. His lawyer didn't know. The judge didn't know.

When I say they did not know where he was, I meant they did not know specifically where he was, that is, in what specific location -- the airport, Immigration, a train bound for nowhere, etc. The lawyer, however, was on the phone with authorities who confirmed that the defendant was being held in the custody of Homeland Security in the Seattle area. She conveyed some information to the judge in sidebars, so not everything is in the transcript.

Is Frank still being held by HS in Seattle? Oh that's right it could be anywhere. I never indicated that Mckenna had power over HS but LE tends to work together. If one jurisdiction has someone sought after elsewhere they release them into the custody of that jurisdiction.

You are the one saying it could be anywhere. The fact is, it was in Seattle.

Sometimes LE work together, but they did not in this case.

There are no important defendants held for Muni Court. I already made the point that no one would arrest him in NYC for a Seattle misdemeanor. They are either released immediately or the have an in custody hearing where they get PR or some bail.

Okay.

I'm sure he wasn't that big of a story but mention of HS holding might have engendered interest.

So where is he? Why doesn't he come here and deal with it? Why did HS detain him?

He is available through Perugia Shock if you want to ask him.

 

[Grinder]

Mary says it in side bars not on the transcript.

Bill says it's on the transcript.

Give me the link or post the transcript here or send it by PM or put it somewhere else here.

Where is Frank now? Why doesn't he deal with this? Why did HS detain him?

I already said I'd concede anything you document. There is no mention in the court records of the judge accepting the HS story.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

I agree; it does not make sense.

It was reported that he was detained by customs in NY, which doesn't make sense.

Can you document this?

 

[Mary_H]

Mary says it in side bars not on the transcript.

Bill says it's on the transcript.

Give me the link or post the transcript here or send it by PM or put it somewhere else here.

Where is Frank now? Why doesn't he deal with this? Why did HS detain him?

I already said I'd concede anything you document. There is no mention in the court records of the judge accepting the HS story.

I have sent you the transcript by PM, but it looks like you have already seen it.

ETA: Let's just say there is no evidence to suggest the judge did not accept the public defender's explanation.

 

[Bill Williams]

Mary says it in side bars not on the transcript.

Bill says it's on the transcript.

Give me the link or post the transcript here or send it by PM or put it somewhere else here.

Where is Frank now? Why doesn't he deal with this? Why did HS detain him?

I already said I'd concede anything you document. There is no mention in the court records of the judge accepting the HS story.

Please note - nothing I am about to say should conflict with you winning, I concede that.

Why is ANY of this important? Why don't you go on facebook, friend Frank, and ask him all this? Are you writing a biography?

That way you could really win. Why is ANY of this of ANY interest to you? Why would Frank "need to deal with this", esp to please you or ANYONE on an internet chat group? Why does he owe ANYONE an explanation?

Why not call the judge? It's a local call for you. Call the lawyer. They'll tell you that they concede that you win these points on an internet chat forum, I suppose.

other than this, I will sign anything you put before me. You write it, I'll sign it. I'll swear I signed it freely.

 

[Briars]

Your answer above is a deflection of the issue I raised. Please address this first. Also, I would advise taking any information found at dot org or dot net with generous grains of salt.

One thing you can't take issue with are Frank's posts . There for all to read and pass judgment on .

 

[Grinder]

Thank you very much.

ETA: Let's just say there is no evidence to suggest the judge did not accept the public defender's explanation.

Well yes there is, because the PD asked for a week and Mckenna didn't give it but chose to issue a bench warrant.

Nothing in the transcript indicates anything about HS.

The only mention of location is the public defender saying Frank had returned from out of town but no specifics.

Your Honor, for the record, Anna Samuel from ACA for Francesco Sforca, case number 584168. Mr. Sforca is not present right now, but we do have an Italian-speaking interpreter. Your Honor, Mr. Sforca's been, is not able to be here, but, we're asking to set the case over, hopefully for one week and with an [FTA?] so the speedy trial [inaudible] so that I can notify him; I am in good contact with him... so we'll defer to the court, but preferably we ask for one week set-over and I will notify him.

AS: “Your Honor, for the record, Anna Samuel from ACA for Mr. Sforca. The court had set the case over from the morning to see if I could have Mr. Sforca appear in the court but he cannot; he did get a notice of court date, and I know he tried to come for this court by coming back from out of town yesterday, but he cannot be present so he is not present in the courtroom today; so I have no other suggestions at this time.”

There is no mention of specific place. Seems odd that he could call while detained by HS.

Chris I do not have evidence and will retract my statement about NYC but hope others that indicated the transcript indicated HS and Seattle would also retract there statements.

 

[Grinder]

Please note - nothing I am about to say should conflict with you winning, I concede that.

Why would Frank "need to deal with this", esp to please you or ANYONE on an internet chat group? Why does he owe ANYONE an explanation?

Bill he is charged with domestic assault. He is required by our laws to "deal with this".

Why not call the judge? It's a local call for you. Call the lawyer. They'll tell you that they concede that you win these points on an internet chat forum, I suppose.

Neither the judge nor the lawyer could speak with anybody about the case beyond the public record.

 

[Bill Williams]

Bill he is charged with domestic assault. He is required by our laws to "deal with this".

And when he was at the Seattle airport being held by HomeSec, he was, as required, dealing with it. It is not his fault, and the judge knows this, that he did not (I was going to say "could not", but given your argumentative mood, will pre-concede to you the strictest and worst interpretation imaginable, did not) comply.

So? What is this about for the purposes of this forum? Frank has, in good faith, complied to the best of his ability. Why are we discussing this?

But I will sign anything you put in front of me just to end this.

 

[Grinder]

Unless Mary H sent a bogus transcript this wasn't in it

Damn, though, with Grinder winning these arguments, someone is going to have to rename Seattle to "New York City." He sure can win arguments.

Someone also has to alter the transcript of the court hearing, both the morning one and the afternoon one. The judge is in contempt of self for claiming that Frank was out at the airport in.... er, the New New York City, so as to distinguish it from the New York City on the east coast.

 

[Mary_H]

Chris I do not have evidence and will retract my statement about NYC but hope others that indicated the transcript indicated HS and Seattle would also retract there statements.

I won't be retracting anything because I am not addressing this issue in order to make claims. My responses are intended to provide information. They are based on personal knowledge and can't be documented any further than the trial transcript. You are welcome to disregard them.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

I am tired of answering your questions with respect to Y-STR analysis and other matters without any reciprocity. Welcome to ignore.

Halides1

Thank you for the link to Injustice in Perugia (IIP).

The Florentine court has actually invalidated the entire judicial process against Mignini and Giuttari, charges, preliminary trial and first level verdict! I am surprised given your usual thoroughness that you were not aware of this.

The rest of the information on link is simply out of date allegations. I ask again are you aware of any formal charges raised against Mignini by Raffaele or Amanda’s defence team or any of the people on the IIP link?

 

[CoulsdonUK]

These are formidable points Coulsdon! I am hardly surprised Halides cannot answer. It clearly follows that Sforzas relative preponderance over Mignini of legal difficulties in the US is poweful evidence of the propriety of the prosecution. Keep it up!

No they weren’t formidable points; nonetheless I am surprised by the series of posts relating to the “adventures of Frank in America”, I guess he is not a sideshow after all.

 

[Dan O.]

No they weren’t formidable points; nonetheless I am surprised by the series of posts relating to the “adventures of Frank in America”, I guess he is not a sideshow after all.

Why do you mention Frank?

 

[Bill Williams]

Chris I do not have evidence and will retract my statement about NYC but hope others that indicated the transcript indicated HS and Seattle would also retract there statements.

I won't be retracting anything because I am not addressing this issue in order to make claims. My responses are intended to provide information. They are based on personal knowledge and can't be documented any further than the trial transcript. You are welcome to disregard them.

Moi aussi. Anyone anytime is welcome to disregard anything posted from the "Bill Williams" account here.

 

[Grinder]

Anglo, from Hellmann, apparently the PM could have called Raf

Furthermore, since no one — neither the Public Minister, nor the civil parties, nor even the attorneys for the defendants — requested the testimony [esame] of Raffaele Sollecito, no explanation on this point is available to be checked.