Merged Has this structural engineer been debunked? / Astaneh-Asl "melting of girders"

[Senenmut]

It was yours! Genius!

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/109234699fe7de0c94.gif[/qimg][qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/109234699fe7de0c94.gif[/qimg][qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/109234699fe7de0c94.gif[/qimg][qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/109234699fe7de0c94.gif[/qimg][qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/109234699fe7de0c94.gif[/qimg]

you cant say a reporter said this when astaneh related fire damage and the extreme steel wastage exhibited on this piece of steel. he wrote the paper himself.


from "Material Recovery Report by Professor Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl":

"fig 10 shows an example of steel removed from the site of the collapsed building 7. the inspection of steel indicated that there wsa very intense fire inside the building. ... "

 

[Ape of Good Hope]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=933GswlHPoA&t=1m55s

 

[jaydeehess]

delete

 

[jaydeehess]

you cant say a reporter said this when astaneh related fire damage and the extreme steel wastage exhibited on this piece of steel. he wrote the paper himself.


from "Material Recovery Report by Professor Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl":

"fig 10 shows an example of steel removed from the site of the collapsed building 7. the inspection of steel indicated that there wsa very intense fire inside the building. ... "


[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_2854450fd8c715f054.jpg[/qimg]

Jeepers Sennemut, you asked me a while ago what papers of Astenah's you have quoted. Above is a clue to the answer.
You have posted this picture several times noting the slag but , and perhaps it my older monitor, but could you perhap import that pic into " MSPaint" and draw in an arrow pointing out where you see slag.

Also still waiting for a demonstration of thermite producing steel wasteage/erosion/vapourization as seen on the WTC samples.

Once that is shown then perhaps we can move onto how such thermite usage managed to bring down three structures and leave behind such a distinct paucity of examples of its use.

 

[Senenmut]

Jeepers Sennemut, you asked me a while ago what papers of Astenah's you have quoted. Above is a clue to the answer.
You have posted this picture several times noting the slag but , and perhaps it my older monitor, but could you perhap import that pic into " MSPaint" and draw in an arrow pointing out where you see slag.

maybe you should check when you asked about "papers" and when i posted that pic with the description by astaneh.

 

[beachnut]

... "fig 10 shows an example of steel removed from the site of the collapsed building 7. the inspection of steel indicated that there wsa very intense fire inside the building. ... "
...

Fire, no thermite. Self-debunking.

 

[monty1]

Astaneh said that the steel had to have reached a temp that would turn it white hot or yellow hot. That's pure ********. It only had to reach cherry red hot. The professor has now been debunked. And he also said the steel melted which debunks him again. It obviously didn't melt.

How on earth could a stupid thread like this one survive for 33 pages? Stupid people listening to equally stupid engineers out to make a quick buck?

Edited by Locknar: 

Edited, breach of rule 10.

 

[jaydeehess]

maybe you should check when you asked about "papers" and when i posted that pic with the description by astaneh.

so you contend that you posted for several pages of this thread discussing the professor and his statements and work without ever refering to either his statements or his work?

 

[Senenmut]

so you contend that you posted for several pages of this thread discussing the professor and his statements and work without ever refering to either his statements or his work?

u know the dillio...

 

[remo]

Iron-rich-ritchie rich.

"For example, valuable information could come from analysis of the blackened steel from the floors engulfed in flame after the airplane collisions. Steel flanges had been reduced from an inch thick to paper thin, Astaneh said. He and others suspect that the buildings collapsed because the intense heat of the jet-fuel-fed fire softened the steel to the point that the columns no longer could support the weight of the floors above."
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkele...0/03_grou.html

It never ceases to amaze me how genuine engineer and professorial types, editors journalists and Judges alike, can conceive THE highest grade builders steel from THE worst ever terrorist atrocity in US history; can stand to state plain and simple: 'builders steel in a jet fuel/Normal Office furnishings fire' 'reduced from an inch thick to paper thin' in one sentence without fainting from lost of blood .

That 'valuable information 'could come from analysis' of the blackened steel' is said by any building PROFESSIONAL without regard to the fact that analysis was NOT PROPERLY DONE, passes into the 'Ritchie LEE' school of the 'unusual', whereby 'furnace' elevator shafts blast an inferno so hot in that brief hour, unseen; that the RUST MELTED into the 'unusual' 6% by mass of the entire pyroclastic DUST flow - 6% by mass iron rich spheroids. Not investigated as 'valuable information'.
As it is with the creatioNIST Shyam [Pinnochio] Sunder's 'speed of deceit' [magic bolt®]agnotology, urging us to accept no mystery to the sudden FREE air-borne FALL of a complex 81 columned 47 storied steel framed high rise in 6.5 seconds because of ONE small fire on ONE floor around ONE column girder seat.

It must be the times we are in.

 

[beachnut]

Jones spread lies, 911 truth followers repeat them freely, without evidence

"For example, valuable information could come from analysis of the blackened steel from the floors engulfed in flame after the airplane collisions. Steel flanges had been reduced from an inch thick to paper thin, Astaneh said. He and others suspect that the buildings collapsed because the intense heat of the jet-fuel-fed fire softened the steel to the point that the columns no longer could support the weight of the floors above."
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkele...0/03_grou.html

It never ceases to amaze me how genuine engineer and professorial types, editors journalists and Judges alike, can conceive THE highest grade builders steel from THE worst ever terrorist atrocity in US history; can stand to state plain and simple: 'builders steel in a jet fuel/Normal Office furnishings fire' 'reduced from an inch thick to paper thin' in one sentence without fainting from lost of blood .

That 'valuable information 'could come from analysis' of the blackened steel' is said by any building PROFESSIONAL without regard to the fact that analysis was NOT PROPERLY DONE, passes into the 'Ritchie LEE' school of the 'unusual', whereby 'furnace' elevator shafts blast an inferno so hot in that brief hour, unseen; that the RUST MELTED into the 'unusual' 6% by mass of the entire pyroclastic DUST flow - 6% by mass iron rich spheroids. Not investigated as 'valuable information'.
As it is with the creatioNIST Shyam [Pinnochio] Sunder's 'speed of deceit' [magic bolt®]agnotology, urging us to accept no mystery to the sudden FREE air-borne FALL of a complex 81 columned 47 storied steel framed high rise in 6.5 seconds because of ONE small fire on ONE floor around ONE column girder seat.

It must be the times we are in.

WTC 7 did not fall in 6.5 seconds. Why spread lies?

Jones says thermite destroyed the WTC and nuts repeat it like cult members who refuse to think for themselves. Is Jones nuts, or does he lie on purpose? Why are lies made up by Jones repeated by 911 truth as gospel?

The

6 percent of the dust is not iron spheres, but 6 to 7 percent of the earth's crust is iron. Why do you spread lies? Prove 6 percent of the dust was iron spheres. My back yard has 6 percent iron. lol

The steel was studied. It was corroded steel in fire; temperatures up to 1,000 C. Oops, no thermite.

Dr. A calls your claims unfounded. Your claims are anti-intellectual BS, and some out right lies if you were to check the facts.

 

[Animal]

urging us to accept no mystery to the sudden FREE air-borne FALL of a complex 81 columned 47 storied steel framed high rise in 6.5 seconds because of ONE small fire on ONE floor around ONE column girder seat.

It must be the times we are in.

Lets count the errors in one sentence.

It was not "sudden", don't have a clue what is meant by "free airborne fall"
It wasn't 6.5 seconds, it was not one small fire, it was not on one floor, and it was not one girder seat.

You certainly pack a lot of WRONG in a small space.

 

[jaydeehess]

so you contend that you posted for several pages of this thread discussing the professor and his statements and work without ever refering to either his statements or his work?

u know the dillio...

The deal is that YOU asked me what papers of Asteaneh's you had quoted from, and I got to wondering what you were getting at. Surely you were not trying to say that while posting for several pages on the subject that you did not bother to quote HIS work at all in order to deduce what conclusions HE arrived at? Surely you were not attempting to derive Astaneh's conclusions by reading the characterizations of observations created by reporters? That, after all, would be using second hand information when first hand information is available.
In fact we now several instances in which Astaneh has responded to charaterizations of his statements and work by members of the 911T movement and he has unequivocably denounced such characterizations and the entire 911T body of contentions.
I fail to see why you continue in this vein!

 

[jaydeehess]

It never ceases to amaze me how genuine engineer and professorial types, editors journalists and Judges alike, can conceive THE highest grade builders steel from THE worst ever terrorist atrocity in US history; can stand to state plain and simple: 'builders steel in a jet fuel/Normal Office furnishings fire' 'reduced from an inch thick to paper thin' in one sentence without fainting from lost of blood .

.

Holy Carp, could you try that again in English, please?

 

[Senenmut]

quite literally could not have said it better

Sennemut believes that because a thermite cut can produce a sharp edge that it therefore resembles the wtc steel samples is nothing but wishful thinking on his part.
Nor does any of his characterisation of Astenah or his paper hold any water other than in a mind grasping at straws to keep a failing contention alive

your post 1244 is where you mention "his paper". i did not present any of his "papers" at that point in time.

 

[Redwood]

WTC 7 did not fall in 6.5 seconds. Why spread lies?

Jones says thermite destroyed the WTC and nuts repeat it like cult members who refuse to think for themselves. Is Jones nuts, or does he lie on purpose? Why are lies made up by Jones repeated by 911 truth as gospel?

The

6 percent of the dust is not iron spheres, but 6 to 7 percent of the earth's crust is iron. Why do you spread lies? Prove 6 percent of the dust was iron spheres. My back yard has 6 percent iron. lol

The steel was studied. It was corroded steel in fire; temperatures up to 1,000 C. Oops, no thermite.

Dr. A calls your claims unfounded. Your claims are anti-intellectual BS, and some out right lies if you were to check the facts.

The fact that a few odd, corroded pieces of steel were picked out of the debris pile and saved for study tells me that the cleanup crews and the ASCE were very conscientious. Some coverup!

 

[remo]

NanoengineeredFREEFALL

These WTC7 fires, on the ONE floor [12]around the ONE column seat [79] - although photographically proven OUT at the time of critical initiation, none-the-less magically heated the giant beams above them so hot , they flexed and broke the 3/4" shear studs @22" centers all down their middles instantly, tho simultaneously, the same fires did NOT heat the CONCRETE directly SAT upon them [NCSTAR1-9:352][Did NOT HEAT the CONCRETE in the MODEL]

So that these mighty beams moved as did pinocchio Sunder's nose as he delivered his egregious agnotology to science and mediahackery,. in the 'No Mystery' creatioNIST report.

However, continuing, the girder, thus pushed, crack'd the numerous welded protections at column seat/join built against it happening, to drop, suddenly, onto the concrete floor beneath with SUCH abandon, that the whole 81 vertically columned, 47 storied,steel framed high rise came down in of itself ten seconds later, in two sequences. The first internal. The second external total collapse phase taking 6.5 seconds + - ;

2.50 seconds AT gravitational acceleration.
No Resistant FREE FALL

Airborne .

english enough for you ?

 

[Spanx]

These WTC7 fires, on the ONE floor [12]around the ONE column seat [79] - although photographically proven OUT at the time of critical initiation, none-the-less magically heated the giant beams above them so hot , they flexed and broke the 3/4" shear studs @22" centers all down their middles instantly, tho simultaneously, the same fires did NOT heat the CONCRETE directly SAT upon them [NCSTAR1-9:352][Did NOT HEAT the CONCRETE in the MODEL]

So that these mighty beams moved as did pinocchio Sunder's nose as he delivered his egregious agnotology to science and mediahackery,. in the 'No Mystery' creatioNIST report.

However, continuing, the girder, thus pushed, crack'd the numerous welded protections at column seat/join built against it happening, to drop, suddenly, onto the concrete floor beneath with SUCH abandon, that the whole 81 vertically columned, 47 storied,steel framed high rise came down in of itself ten seconds later, in two sequences. The first internal. The second external total collapse phase taking 6.5 seconds + - ;

2.50 seconds AT gravitational acceleration.
No Resistant FREE FALL

Airborne .

english enough for you ?

Thanks for the fantastic post Remo, you really know how to clear things up once and for all.

Keep up the good work you are providing for the truth movement.

 

[Sunstealer]

These WTC7 fires, on the ONE floor [12]around the ONE column seat [79] - although photographically proven OUT at the time of critical initiation, none-the-less magically heated the giant beams above them so hot , they flexed and broke the 3/4" shear studs @22" centers all down their middles instantly, tho simultaneously, the same fires did NOT heat the CONCRETE directly SAT upon them [NCSTAR1-9:352][Did NOT HEAT the CONCRETE in the MODEL]

So that these mighty beams moved as did pinocchio Sunder's nose as he delivered his egregious agnotology to science and mediahackery,. in the 'No Mystery' creatioNIST report.

However, continuing, the girder, thus pushed, crack'd the numerous welded protections at column seat/join built against it happening, to drop, suddenly, onto the concrete floor beneath with SUCH abandon, that the whole 81 vertically columned, 47 storied,steel framed high rise came down in of itself ten seconds later, in two sequences. The first internal. The second external total collapse phase taking 6.5 seconds + - ;

2.50 seconds AT gravitational acceleration.
No Resistant FREE FALL

Airborne .

english enough for you ?

Stundied!

 

[Stamuel]

RE: Has this structural engineer been debunked? / Astaneh-Asl "melting of girders"

Even though I am relatively new to 9/11 CTs, this is all old stuff to me. Can't sleep, nothing better to do, so here goes.

These WTC7 fires, on the ONE floor [12]around the ONE column seat [79] - although photographically proven OUT at the time of critical initiation,

There is photographic evidence of extensive fires on at least ten floors of building 7. Though fires are not visible on the relevant side of the relevant floor at time of collapse, that only means there was no fire by the windows. Column 79 was not right up against the window.

none-the-less magically heated the giant beams above them so hot , they flexed and broke the 3/4" shear studs @22" centers all down their middles instantly, tho simultaneously, the same fires did NOT heat the CONCRETE directly SAT upon them [NCSTAR1-9:352][Did NOT HEAT the CONCRETE in the MODEL]

Fire heating beams is not magic. It is well studied. There was no need for simultaneous breaks along beams. In the NIST model, one beam fell off its seat after hours of heating, expanding and warping. As far as I know, there were no shear studs, but I do not know if that matters.

Also, the model with unheated concrete was a preliminary model. The final simulation heated the concrete.

So that these mighty beams moved as did pinocchio Sunder's nose as he delivered his egregious agnotology to science and mediahackery,. in the 'No Mystery' creatioNIST report.

However, continuing, the girder, thus pushed, crack'd the numerous welded protections at column seat/join built against it happening, to drop, suddenly, onto the concrete floor beneath with SUCH abandon, that the whole 81 vertically columned, 47 storied,steel framed high rise came down in of itself ten seconds later, in two sequences. The first internal. The second external total collapse phase taking 6.5 seconds + - ;

2.50 seconds AT gravitational acceleration.
No Resistant FREE FALL

Airborne .

english enough for you ?

The east penthouse was internal? Not much more to say. Asteneh's comments do not substantiate your implication that something is wrong with fire being the culprit.