Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

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Stacko said:
From what I can tell from reading the board, Tsukasa ran amok of their one sacred cow: don't offend Setar. It's inexplicable by their own rules the special protection that poster gets.
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That guy can twist anything into an unrecognisable pile of fubar and the ceepolk has always got xir back.
 
appalling said:
[1] I was just responding to your "If they won't defend themselves from my arguments on this forum, they must be afraid to and know they're wrong." argument. Tying that argument to the very survival of life on earth is very exciting. I'm going to call it exciting.

[2] Oh they sound simply awful. And you say they're like girls? Horrid creatures.

[3] Atheism is probably robust enough to survive this fracture of our limited resources.
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1 - Straw manWP! I never said, nor meant, what you quoted.
2 - If the behavior of that A+ forum makes me flash back to 8th grade girl cliques, who are you to say, with sarcasm, my memory is not valid? You sound like a girl-against-girl bullying enabler.
3 - Wishful thinking. I feel it's a clear setback if A+ grows in its current form. Who are you to suggest my feelings on this are not valid?

Gosh, I don't know why this debate is so interesting to me. Trouble is, I can actually mind meld with the a-plussers and sympathize with them. Still, it's clear how gleeful opponents of Atheism are of this splintering of the movement and the bizarre behavior of A+ proponents. How much I'd like to poke them under a microscope to see how they tick, but never will, because they'd group me with those sickos who made rape threats.

I suspect it's a very small number of people who made rape threats, but hey, fear is the most powerful emotion. The amazing thing is this didn't start with a rape threat. It started with a coffee threat. Watson could have said "no thanks, it's really late, so I'm gonna call it a night." Instead, she took it on the road, being paid to speak about it (with outrageous exaggeration), making herself, literally, a professional victim (and I mean literally literally).

Atheism has more important goals, like stopping religion-based female genital mutilation, or the possibility of nuclear war over who's imaginary friend gave them Palestine. Obsessing over things like T-shirts and coffee invitations, well, that gives comfort to the enemies of reason, don't you think?
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
Hey y'all. I think I need to start my posts with "TW: Racist, classist, ableist, vegangelical zealot scum. ****."

I'll return if any more are added. But the lack of a "argument, not the arguer" rule is really apparent.
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The attitude expressed in that thread by the A+ regulars about the sanctity of their privileged resource-intensive First World diets suddenly brings something into focus. Some of those people appear to be, quite simply, spoiled rotten.

I understand dietary restrictions for medical reasons. I have some of my own. But they're claiming that suggesting any of them might be able to make do with a more sustainable diet is the insensitive privileged position. Anyone who fails to take into account how delicate and specific their tastes are, how little time and energy they have to cook, how much they gag and retch when attempting to eat something unfamiliar (reminds me of myself -- when I was seven), is a ******* ******* who can go **** a ******** with a *****.

Note that spoiled rotten is not a happy condition to exist in. (That reaffirms what I've said before: leave them alone.)

I hate to say it, but Avalon might be onto something. Not lack of morals due to lack of belief, or anything like that. But most religions have food-related practices and rituals that could act against that particular kind of spoiled-rottenness.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
appalling said:
So you were trolling them?
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No. Traditional societies generally do eat less meat than before industrialisation, and vegan diets don't require supplements, and food aversion is a psychological effect that is easily remedied.

They decided that because I stated these things I must be a crazy, classist, racist, ableist, etc. vegan. When really I just thought that these classic misinformations against all vegans shouldn't be used to demonise a few of them.
 
Myriad said:
The attitude expressed in that thread by the A+ regulars about the sanctity of their privileged resource-intensive First World diets suddenly brings something into focus. Some of those people appear to be, quite simply, spoiled rotten.

I understand dietary restrictions for medical reasons. I have some of my own. But they're claiming that suggesting any of them might be able to make do with a more sustainable diet is the insensitive privileged position. Anyone who fails to take into account how delicate and specific their tastes are, how little time and energy they have to cook, how much they gag and retch when attempting to eat something unfamiliar (reminds me of myself -- when I was seven), is a ******* ******* who can go **** a ******** with a *****.

Note that spoiled rotten is not a happy condition to exist in. (That reaffirms what I've said before: leave them alone.)

I hate to say it, but Avalon might be onto something. Not lack of morals due to lack of belief, or anything like that. But most religions have food-related practices and rituals that could act against that particular kind of spoiled-rottenness.

Respectfully,
Myriad
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This is the thing that most gets me the most. Being anti-vegan is a common enough thing not to raise my eyebrow, but the weird racism/classism in a thread about a traditional culture that is being forced to a more meat-intensive diet and on a forum dedicated to fighting racism/classism just blew my mind.

The taste aversion was a bizarre and hyperbolic non-sequitur. I almost used the word "hysterical" to describe one of those rants, but I caught myself just in time :p .
 
Mr. Scott said:
1 - Straw manWP! I never said, nor meant, what you quoted.
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You said, among other things....

If Atheism+ were a good thing and fully defensible, someone would be engaged in a robust defense of it here, and might even be winning.
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Are you saying that doesn't mean anything like saying that if it were a good thing, then somebody would make an argument in this forum?


Mr. Scott said:
2 - If the behavior of that A+ forum makes me flash back to 8th grade girl cliques, who are you to say, with sarcasm, my memory is not valid? You sound like a girl-against-girl bullying enabler.
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I don't disagree that you characterize them as girls in grade eight. I'm pointing out that it's a funny way to sound like the mature one.

Mr. Scott said:
3 - Wishful thinking. I feel it's a clear setback if A+ grows in its current form. Who are you to suggest my feelings on this are not valid?
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You are certainly entitled to your opinion that the existence of another forum could lead to the end of life on the planet (your earlier specific definition of a "clear setback"). You're entitled to your snark, I just don't find it a supportable or convincing argument. It undermines my sense that the outrage at this other forum is justified.

Mr. Scott said:
The amazing thing is this didn't start with a rape threat. It started with a coffee threat. Watson could have said "no thanks, it's really late, so I'm gonna call it a night." Instead, she took it on the road, being paid to speak about it (with outrageous exaggeration), making herself, literally, a professional victim (and I mean literally literally).
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Ahh, you're specifically sore about this. This had nothing to do with what I was talking about.

Mr. Scott said:
Atheism has more important goals, like stopping religion-based female genital mutilation, or the possibility of nuclear war over who's imaginary friend gave them Palestine. Obsessing over things like T-shirts and coffee invitations, well, that gives comfort to the enemies of reason, don't you think?
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Obsessing over other atheist forums might give comfort to enemies somewhere, but whatever, if snarking at A+ is the road to Middle East peace as you say, go for it.
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
This is the thing that most gets me the most. Being anti-vegan is a common enough thing not to raise my eyebrow, but the weird racism/classism in a thread about a traditional culture that is being forced to a more meat-intensive diet and on a forum dedicated to fighting racism/classism just blew my mind.

The taste aversion was a bizarre and hyperbolic non-sequitur. I almost used the word "hysterical" to describe one of those rants, but I caught myself just in time :p .
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It seems you went into a forum you had a bias against, and got into a tiff. By your eyes, everyone there was wrong, and you were clear-headed rationality. There seems to be a lot of support for that opinion. I don't necessarily see it.

Looking back through this thread, it is a mess of name-calling hostility itself.

I just don't find this an example of what you are saying A+ is missing out on.
 
appalling said:
Obsessing over other atheist forums might give comfort to enemies somewhere, but whatever, if snarking at A+ is the road to Middle East peace as you say, go for it.
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We have A+ to obsess over and you have us. It all works out.

Looking back through this thread, it is a mess of name-calling hostility itself.
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RandFan said:
We have A+ to obsess over and you have us. It all works out.
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Totally fair, admittedly.

I was just excited to hear that A+ is putting us in danger of human extinction.

I can't look at videos right now, I'm afraid. I'm sure it's trenchant.
 
And Randfan, I've appreciate your comments more than a little, but no one else seems to be taking any notice of weird arguments like this,

I suspect it's a very small number of people who made rape threats, but hey, fear is the most powerful emotion. The amazing thing is this didn't start with a rape threat. It started with a coffee threat. Watson could have said "no thanks, it's really late, so I'm gonna call it a night." Instead, she took it on the road, being paid to speak about it (with outrageous exaggeration), making herself, literally, a professional victim (and I mean literally literally).

Atheism has more important goals, like stopping religion-based female genital mutilation, or the possibility of nuclear war over who's imaginary friend gave them Palestine. Obsessing over things like T-shirts and coffee invitations, well, that gives comfort to the enemies of reason, don't you think?
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...which I read as "Why bother with any overblown complaints of sexism in skeptical communities when it gets in the way of our important work combating FGM?"

Is my reading of this that far off?
 
appalling said:
Totally fair, admittedly.

I was just excited to hear that A+ is putting us in danger of human extinction.

I can't look at videos right now, I'm afraid. I'm sure it's trenchant.
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Kurtz saying "the horror" from Apocalypse now. My snark can get out of control at times. Sorry.
 
appalling said:
And Randfan, I've appreciate your comments more than a little, but no one else seems to be taking any notice of weird arguments like this,

I suspect it's a very small number of people who made rape threats, but hey, fear is the most powerful emotion. The amazing thing is this didn't start with a rape threat. It started with a coffee threat. Watson could have said "no thanks, it's really late, so I'm gonna call it a night." Instead, she took it on the road, being paid to speak about it (with outrageous exaggeration), making herself, literally, a professional victim (and I mean literally literally).

Atheism has more important goals, like stopping religion-based female genital mutilation, or the possibility of nuclear war over who's imaginary friend gave them Palestine. Obsessing over things like T-shirts and coffee invitations, well, that gives comfort to the enemies of reason, don't you think?
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...which I read as "Why bother with any overblown complaints of sexism in skeptical communities when it gets in the way of our important work combating FGM?"

Is my reading of this that far off?
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My anxiety medicine is kicking in and I don't think I can give a fair assessment. I promise to address it in the morning.
 
@Appalling: Are you perchance a member of Atheism+? May I ask what your user name is if yes? There is no appalling in the member list. Only in the content. :D
 
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Tsukasa Buddha said:
No. Traditional societies generally do eat less meat than before industrialisation,
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Less meat is not the same as vegan, though. Are there any societies that didn't eat any meat or fish at all?
and vegan diets don't require supplements, and food aversion is a psychological effect that is easily remedied.
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Funny that they don't see that having a choice of what you eat is a privilege. Actually, I have a small amount of sympathy, there are a few things that I simply cannot eat because of the texture, but I don't make a big deal out of it, I just don't eat them.
They decided that because I stated these things I must be a crazy, classist, racist, ableist, etc. vegan. When really I just thought that these classic misinformations against all vegans shouldn't be used to demonise a few of them.
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I see you got caught by one of their classic tactics. Rant about something in a way that any normal person would take to mean that you were attacking the whole field, then, when challenged, backtrack and point out weasel words that mean you can claim you were only attacking the lunatic fringe (but which then raises the question about why you were so upset about something so clearly absurd to everyone else, too, and why you didn't clarify that in the first place). Now what does that remind me of? Oh, yes, RW on evolutionary psychology.
 
Re: Atheism Plus

kellyb said:
I still strongly identify as feminist, but I'll certainly be cool with you if you agree that the rape threats folks are FUBAR? (and after years of cohabitating here with you, I'm assuming it's likely that you find the rape threatening folks terrible? Or am I misinterpreting you? I find it unlikely.)
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And so what? Are rape threats worse than death threats that everyone with a slightly controversial presense on the internet gets?

I know rape is worse than death to a plussers that is why they banned a rape victim for finding joy in life, but do you agree with that?
 
recursive prophet said:
@Appalling: Are you perchance a member of Atheism+? May I ask what your user name is if yes? There is no appalling in the member list. Only in the content. :D
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My intuition is Appalling is a card-carrying Aplusser, and it's nice to have one here. I'm enjoying the logical fallacies on display.
 
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