LDS

[dafydd]

Janadele, what are you doing here? Is this the modern equivalent of going around knocking on people's doors in the hope of finding vulnerable marks for the cult?

 

[dafydd]

She can't preach to other Mormons, she's a woman.

So Mormonism is not an equal opportunity employer? Most religions aren't. I'm surprised that women in these cults put up with it.

 

[Pixel42]

Of course I believe that Adam and Eve were actual flesh and blood persons... and that they were the first of humankind on this earth.

There is no "of course" about believing things which have been proven false. Given the number of other provably false things you have stated you believe it comes as no great surprise, but there's still no "of course" about it.

For the record not all Mormons believe this. I have had discussions with Mormons who believe just as unquestioningly as you do in the validity of the Book of Mormon and other LDS teachings, but who aren't creationists.

 

[tsig]

So Mormonism is not an equal opportunity employer? Most religions aren't. I'm surprised that women in these cults put up with it.

Women cannot hold the priesthood. Their main function theologically is to produce more Mormons so their husband can achieve a higher status in the next life.

 

[Empress]

She can't preach to other Mormons, she's a woman.

Oddly enough, women can preach in Mormon churches. They can't hold the Priesthood, which is the power in the church, but they can give talks in Sacrament, and teach classes. Not sure how they rectify that with Paul's statement that a woman must be silent in church, however. I just asked my mother, and she suspects it's a matter of tradition, and they consider that line a mistranslation of the bible. She's not aware of any specific Mormon teaching that that is a mistranslation, however.

 

[RandFan]

Oddly enough, women can preach in Mormon churches. They can't hold the Priesthood, which is the power in the church, but they can give talks in Sacrament, and teach classes. Not sure how they rectify that with Paul's statement that a woman must be silent in church, however. I just asked my mother, and she suspects it's a matter of tradition, and they consider that line a mistranslation of the bible. She's not aware of any specific Mormon teaching that that is a mistranslation, however.

I concur. This is my understanding also. My wife gave talks (at the pulpit) at church meetings and taught Sunday school.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Janadele, what are you doing here? Is this the modern equivalent of going around knocking on people's doors in the hope of finding vulnerable marks for the cult?

As noted early on in the thread:

This thread is Janadele's mission.

 

[dafydd]

As noted early on in the thread:

They don't knock on my door anymore, I think I'm on a blacklist. Too many awkward questions. I'm temped to post the hilarious clip of Mrs. Brown dealing with Mormons, but it's full of the f-word. Mods, would I get into trouble or does the disclaimer protect me?

 

[RandFan]

As noted early on in the thread:

This thread is Janadele's mission.

Warning: The following is speculation and/or my fevered imagination and false memory.

As I recall the Mormon church councils missionaries to avoid places where the discussion is likely to be contentious. My speculation is that if Janadele were to consult her bishop he would kindly council her to avoid coming here.

source Any time people must interact with one another in the home, at work, at church or in any other social situation, there is the possibility that contention will arise.

Contention means argument, dispute, quarreling, or discord.Everyone has different likes and dislikes. We cannot always be in agreement, but we need not allow differences of opinion to lead to contention.

Contention breeds contention - causing a chain reaction of hurt feelings among family members or friends. The Lord established His gospel to help us find solutions to our problems. By applying gospel principles found in the scriptures, we can find help in dealing with the problem of contention.

 

[carlitos]

That sounds very close to the way cults isolate their adherents from opposing views. If someone questions the leader, then they are the "other."

 

[bruto]

Yes, but it's a wonderfully educational story because it's impossible in so many different ways.

And the even more extraordinary fact that many Christians believe that no miracles were involved almost makes one think the story of Noah was included as a deliberate hint that the whole sorry bible business was an elaborate hoax by some obsessives with violent fantasies...

Indeed, though I don't think it's a hoax. If you look at how small the world in it is, and how limited the vision is, to what the people of the time knew about themselves and their world, you get a pretty good insight into the kind of people they were. The God they made up also makes a sort of cultural sense in this long gone long outgrown world. In a world where everything can flood from a steady rain, and all the animals on earth can be rounded up and marched into a boat built by a prophet and his kids in their back yard, Jehovah is a pretty good fit. Not much of a god for our times, though, is he?

 

[tsig]

Oddly enough, women can preach in Mormon churches. They can't hold the Priesthood, which is the power in the church, but they can give talks in Sacrament, and teach classes. Not sure how they rectify that with Paul's statement that a woman must be silent in church, however. I just asked my mother, and she suspects it's a matter of tradition, and they consider that line a mistranslation of the bible. She's not aware of any specific Mormon teaching that that is a mistranslation, however.

I concur. This is my understanding also. My wife gave talks (at the pulpit) at church meetings and taught Sunday school.

Thanks for the correct info.

 

[The Greater Fool]

I understand that being an active member, the Mormon's participating in this thread choose to follow the doctrines, perhaps even suggestions, of the church in their effort to be the best they can be. When I was a believer, I did the same.

I know when I was a believer, if the leaders said "This thing is displeasing to god" I would avoid "this thing" even though left to my own devices, I wouldn't. An example might be "R" Rated movies...

As LDS members, are there things the Mormon church advises for or against that you otherwise might have not done (or done)? What behaviors have you changed to be the best LDS member you can be?

 

[Cat Tale]

Warning: The following is speculation and/or my fevered imagination and false memory.

As I recall the Mormon church councils missionaries to avoid places where the discussion is likely to be contentious. My speculation is that if Janadele were to consult her bishop he would kindly council her to avoid coming here.

No, not false memory, that is what we [LDS] are taught. Which is why I have even asked her numerous times, what the purpose of coming here and starting this thread? I'm here solely to show that there are other views within the church and that not everyone is a literalist, and that's okay.

As far as women not being able to preach, as I, and others have said, we can give talks, be teachers, serve missions, teach seminary and institute, etc. there is little that we cannot do except hold the priesthood. However, that wasn't always so, as I will demonstrate further down.

The problem with Elder Talmage (among other things) is he died in 1933. At that time the African-Americans didn't have the priesthood, women didn't give prayers in sacrament meeting, the church was strict creationist... we've come a long way in those regards.

As late as 1975, during General Conference it was announced that,

The First Presidency recommends that only those who bear the Melchizedek Priesthood or Aaronic Priesthood be invited to offer the opening and closing prayers in sacrament meetings, including fast meetings. This also applies to priesthood meetings.

However, it's interesting that in 1978, about the same time as the ERA was being batted about, the church changed it's stance,

The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve have determined that there is no scriptural prohibition against sisters offering prayers in sacrament meetings. It was therefore decided that it is permissible for sisters to offer prayers in any meetings they attend, including sacrament meetings, Sunday School meetings, and stake conferences. Relief Society visiting teachers may offer prayers in homes that they enter in fulfilling visiting teaching assignments.

I'm not saying this to prove anything other than that the church is always moving forward, always evolving, so we can't rely on something written nearly 100 years ago. Wow, I just looked and Jesus the Christ was published in 1915, so it was literally almost 100 years ago.

 

[RandFan]

No, not false memory, that is what we [LDS] are taught. Which is why I have even asked her numerous times, what the purpose of coming here and starting this thread? I'm here solely to show that there are other views within the church and that not everyone is a literalist, and that's okay.

As far as women not being able to preach, as I, and others have said, we can give talks, be teachers, serve missions, teach seminary and institute, etc. there is little that we cannot do except hold the priesthood. However, that wasn't always so, as I will demonstrate in my final paragraph.

The problem with Elder Talmage (among other things) is he died in 1933. At that time the African-Americans didn't have the priesthood, women didn't give prayers in sacrament meeting, the church was strict creationist... we've come a long way in those regards.

As late as 1975, during General Conference it was announced that, However, it's interesting that in 1978, about the same time as the ERA was being batted about, the church changed it's stance, I'm not saying this to prove anything other than that the church is always moving forward, always evolving, so we can't rely on something written nearly 100 years ago. Wow, I just looked and Jesus the Christ was published in 1915, so it was literally almost 100 years ago.

Thanks.

BTW: It is my opinion that life is better if we avoid anger and heated argument but it is also my opinion that Mormons should seek out opposing views and honestly consider them. I don't expect that and I don't push people to be involved but discussion and debate are critical to social and moral progress.

One of the things that caused me to have serious doubts about my "testimony" was the fear that I could lose it. How? Why? I'm in no fear of losing my belief in gravity. Truth is its own testimony.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Indeed, though I don't think it's a hoax. If you look at how small the world in it is, and how limited the vision is, to what the people of the time knew about themselves and their world, you get a pretty good insight into the kind of people they were. The God they made up also makes a sort of cultural sense in this long gone long outgrown world. In a world where everything can flood from a steady rain, and all the animals on earth can be rounded up and marched into a boat built by a prophet and his kids in their back yard, Jehovah is a pretty good fit. Not much of a god for our times, though, is he?

I made a similar observation way back on page 13 of this thread. It's important to remember that to the people telling those stories this was the whole of the universe.

 

[Cat Tale]

As LDS members, are there things the Mormon church advises for or against that you otherwise might have not done (or done)? What behaviors have you changed to be the best LDS member you can be?

Honestly, I don't think there's anything that I've really given up. I was pretty much living the lifestyle when I joined which is what drew me to the church in the first place. Initially the missionaries did tell me that I wasn't to have caffeine, and I loved cola drinks. But they told me I could have root beer with my pizza and I was totally cool with that, though still today I try to avoid too much caffeine just because I don't think it's good for the body. Years later I learned there was no church stance on the subject, and now the church says the only beverages to avoid are "coffee and tea." So... I guess I don't see where I had to give up any vices. Family and friends, that's another matter.

 

[carlitos]

There are a handful of root beers without caffeine. I used to sell soft drinks in a couple of Mennonite areas, and we had a complete no-caffeine soft drink aisle in some stores. Even Barq's, which is caffeinated in most states, is distributed in a non-caffeine version in Utah.

 

[abaddon]

Much can be found on the Millennium within LDS Teachings and Doctrines... including in Jesus The Christ by James E. Talmage, from where I have summarised and condensed the following:

No, you didn't, you just pasted it from here You didn't "summarise and condense" anything, you simply pasted a block of text. Plagiarism much?

 

[RandFan]

Much can be found on the Millennium within LDS Teachings and Doctrines... including in Jesus The Christ by James E. Talmage, from where I have summarised and condensed the following:

No, you didn't, you just pasted it from here You didn't "summarise and condense" anything, you simply pasted a block of text. Plagiarism much?

Not cool.

Lying for the Lord refers to the practice of lying to protect the image of and belief in the Mormon religion, a practice which Mormonism itself fosters in various ways. From Joseph Smith's denial of having more than one wife, to polygamous Mormon missionaries telling European investigators that reports about polygamy in Utah were lies put out by "anti-Mormons" and disgruntled ex-members, to Gordon B. Hinckley's dishonest equivocation on national television over Mormon doctrine, Mormonism's history seems replete with examples of lying.