Merged Has this structural engineer been debunked? / Astaneh-Asl "melting of girders"

[Gamolon]

you wanted an edge. i showed you and edge. i would like to see a microstructural analysis too.

It's not that same type of edge! That's like showing you a chisel and a knife and saying it's the same type of edge.

 

[Senenmut]

That would be a piece of steel that, in the course of the process, was transformed by corrosion involving the formation of eutectics in the grain boundaries. So there is no distinction between "the steel temp" and "the eutectic temp".
Do you understand that, and agree with that take?

you also still need to explain what you mean by "there is no distinction between the steel temp and the eutectic temp."

 

[Senenmut]

It's not that same type of edge! That's like showing you a chisel and a knife and saying it's the same type of edge.

thermite can created and edge. period.

 

[Gamolon]

thermite can created and edge. period.

Not the same type.

Sorry.

You are just wrong. The pictures prove it.

 

[Gamolon]

it still doesnt make a bit of difference to his observation. he thinks it burned first and then buckled as it was attached to the building, not as it lay in the debris pile. sisson cant prove that it occured in the debris pile.
and again from the article from the berkeleyan:

For example, valuable information could come from analysis of the blackened steel from the floors engulfed in flame after the airplane collisions. Steel flanges had been reduced from an inch thick to paper thin, Astaneh said. He and others suspect that the buildings collapsed because the intense heat of the jet-fuel-fed fire softened the steel to the point that the columns no longer could support the weight of the floors above. As the top 10 or so stories fell, they collapsed the floors below in a cascade of pancaking concrete floor slabs.
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2001/10/03_grou.html


its funny how astaneh was so impressed with the steel that showed extreme steel wastage days after 911. now he is like....those arent my quotes....those are false.

so why did astaneh bring up steel flanges that had been reduced from an inch to paper thin when speaking about the floors engulfed in flames?

And there you go making interpretations to fit your beliefs.

What does the article say AFTER the steel flanges paper thin?

It clearly says:

He and others suspect that the buildings collapsed because the intense heat of the jet-fuel-fed fire softened the steel to the point that the columns no longer could support the weight of the floors above.

Show me where he says that the building collapsed because parts of steel beams were "vaporized"? Softened does not equal "vaporized".

 

[Senenmut]

Show me where he says that the building collapsed because parts of steel beams were "vaporized"? Softened does not equal "vaporized".

after the steel wastage happened, check out figs 4,5,and 6 in the wtc paper.
http://www.georgevandervoort.com/fa_lit_papers/World_Trade_Center.pdf

at those temps mentioned for that microstructure to occur, the steel would indeed be "softened." that microstructure is under the eutectic on top of the steel and notice the extreme steel wastage that has already happened (fig 3).

 

[dafydd]

The public and scienific community are still searching for answers.
　

No. Only a handful of truthers are obsessed with this delusion.

 

[Stamuel]

Not the same type.

Sorry.

You are just wrong. The pictures prove it.

To be fair, just looking at a couple of pictures isn't a firm basis for drawing these kinds of conclusions. Sure, the beams look different from Cole's thermXte beams to my eye, but more detailed research is required.

Of course, the more detailed research shows that truthers are wrong that this is evidence of thermXte.

 

[catsmate]

Yes, conversation ends.

He again answered questions I didn't ask and threw in more red herrings.

Gotta say thought that's pretty high quality trolling.

Well given that he still has the fabricated quote in his sig, what do you expect?

Why is Cole's experiment being brought up again?

Same reason homeopaths cite a few papers and shroudies parrot likewise, it's all they've got. It may be long debunked, discredited, dishonest nonsense but they simply haven't got anything better.

 

[The Big Dog]

thermite can created and edge. period.

Uh, yeah.

Anyway, the whole continental drift caused "and edge" too. Sure it is 50 miles thick.

/not unlike some truthers, high five bro!

 

[Justin39640]

Yeah, um, metal that was cut by heat is generally very dull. Metal that has been scraped away or attacked by corrosion can be very sharp. I have a few small scars to prove that.

 

[Spanx]

Yeah, um, metal that was cut by heat is generally very dull. Metal that has been scraped away or attacked by corrosion can be very sharp. I have a few small scars to prove that.

I wonder which government was responsible for this nasty piece of work ?

http://www.abwuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/steel-corrosion.jpg

 

[Justin39640]

I wonder which government was responsible for this nasty piece of work ?

http://www.abwuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/steel-corrosion.jpg

Republican
Undermining of
Steel and
Turnbuckles

(That stunk, BOO!!! lol)

 

[Justin39640]

http://imageshack.us/a/img219/3074/img00440201106221015.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img827/5792/img00441201106221015.jpg

Sulfuric acid attack. Look familiar?

 

[Redwood]

http://imageshack.us/a/img219/3074/img00440201106221015.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img827/5792/img00441201106221015.jpg

Sulfuric acid attack. Look familiar?

Sure does! (I'm a retired industrial chemist.) I think that a combination of CaSO₄, burning PVC (generates HCl), water, and possibly H₂SO₄ from electrical backup units is an excellent candidate for the corrosion, along with the heat generated by the underground fires.

 

[jaydeehess]

show what you wrote and we can decide about that.

If you cannot demonstrate the thermite can give the knife edge, no slag attachments as seen in the photos then how can this thread even continue?

 

[Senenmut]

If you cannot demonstrate the thermite can give the knife edge, no slag attachments as seen in the photos then how can this thread even continue?

i guess you forgot to look at what i posted already:

start at 10:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g

 

[beachnut]

i guess you forgot to look at what i posted already:

start at 10:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g

The video author is insane. And? You understand there was not thermite used on 911. The steel was corroded, not thermite.

You proved thermite product, iron, is fused to the steel. Not found on any WTC steel. oops, the steel at the WTC was not subjected to over 1,000 C. What is the temperature of thermite? No melted steel, no thermite products found anywhere at the WTC. What is your point?

no slag? the steel from the fema bpat report on the wtc7 steel and the steel beam astaneh photographed look very similar. did the fema report have slag on it?


[URL="http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_2854450f1b21e84975.jpg"]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_2854450f1b21e84975.jpg[/URL]

Corroded steel, not melted, no thermite. You posted steel which shows no thermite.

 

[deeper]

i guess you forgot to look at what i posted already:

start at 10:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g

No ones forgot, it's just that you don't realise that when you compared this,

to this,

your argument (that the features of both pieces were created by the same mechanism) was revealed to be so ridiculous that there is nothing more to be said, it really is over (as if the thread hadn't been over about fifty times already).

Senenmut, you have revealed all your cards now, sadly they are a busted flush and there is no way back. All other claims, such as Astaneh changing his story to protect his job, what he actually meant, etc, are all irrelevant now in light of your above comparison which is clearly without merit. If you refuse to let go of that last, desperate straw why don't you tout that photograph and video around some qualified experts and try and drum up some support for your claim and then come back here and report who those supporters were.

 

[Senenmut]

No ones forgot, it's just that you don't realise that when you compared this,
[qimg]http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m514/TheRagingSea/NotThermite_zps3e9a650a.jpg[/qimg]


to this,
[qimg]http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m514/TheRagingSea/Thermite_zps9dddb5d7.jpg[/qimg]

your argument (that the features of both pieces were created by the same mechanism) was revealed to be so ridiculous that there is nothing more to be said, it really is over (as if the thread hadn't been over about fifty times already).

people said thermite couldnt create a knifes edge and i showed them thermite can.

Senenmut, you have revealed all your cards now, sadly they are a busted flush and there is no way back. All other claims, such as Astaneh changing his story to protect his job, what he actually meant, etc, are all irrelevant now in light of your above comparison which is clearly without merit.

the articles speak for themselves. astaneh was very interested in those steel beams that experienced severe steel wastage. he even linked the beams that had the wastage to the floors engulfed in flames in the bearkleayan article.

If you refuse to let go of that last, desperate straw why don't you tout that photograph and video around some qualified experts and try and drum up some support for your claim and then come back here and report who those supporters were.

what straw? as for the "slag" on jon coles steel, do you actually know that the wtc 7 beam studied by WPI had "slag" on it as well.