Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Clayton Moore]

That's something I've never considered.
Is there even the slightest possibility there's a link between vaxx and autism?
I mean to say, outside of the anti-vaxxers' world.

Of course there is a link.
Anti-vaxer?
Go to the autism sites where parents of autistic children discuss their child's autism. They are real people with names and faces.

Anti-vaxer? Why do you think these parents are called that? It is to put their version of what happened in the worst light.

Anti-vaxer? The people here screaming anti-vaxer are screen names.

 

[Estellea]

That's something I've never considered.
Is there even the slightest possibility there's a link between vaxx and autism?
I mean to say, outside of the anti-vaxxers' world.

Not per se but the closest thing to it could be illustrated by the Hannah Poling v. HHS and Banks v. HHS cases where the former had an underlying mitochondrial disorder, was given a huge suite of vaccines, developed an encephalopathy and subsequently some autistic like behaviours. The latter developed ADEM after an MMR vaccination and developed neurological impairments. As we can see, there is a profound event preceding a neurological disorder, not the child just "quietly" develops autism post vaccination as Clay believes.

Este

 

[Clayton Moore]

Could you explain what GWS has to do with autism, please?

GWS victims included many military who never even served in the GULF. Guess what all the GWS victims had in common?

 

[Estellea]

Of course there is a link.
Anti-vaxer?
Go to the autism sites where parents of autistic children discuss their child's autism. They are real people with names and faces.

No Clay, evidence please not testimonials. I have engaged some of these parents and with a modicum of probing, their stories completely unravel. They change dates and make up diagnoses in order to adhere to some narrative. It's quite pathetic actually.

Anti-vaxer? Why do you think these parents are called that? It is to put their version of what happened in the worst light.

So be it. Maybe they should be taking care of their children instead of menacing public health.

Este

 

[Bram Kaandorp]

Of course there is a link.
Anti-vaxer?
Go to the autism sites where parents of autistic children discuss their child's autism. They are real people with names and faces.

Anti-vaxer? Why do you think these parents are called that? It is to put their version of what happened in the worst light.

Anti-vaxer? The people here screaming anti-vaxer are screen names.

Wow, you answered that one immediately, but I'm left hanging?

And I'm someone who actually HAS (for as far as it can be called "having", since it's more akin to "being") autism.

I am one of the people you say are affected by vaccines, yet you deem me not important to respond to?

Can you say hypocrite?

 

[Clayton Moore]

How does this count as evidence for a link between autism and vaccination, CM?

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Vaccine abuse includes regulatory bodies looking the other way or not looking at all. We've seen and felt the abuse on the drug side and drug manufacturing is child's play in comparison to the complexity of making vaccines.

Again the vaccine concept is cut and dry. But the vaccines are not. The body deals the vaccine concept. The body must also deal the materials that accompany todays vaccines.

Catch a baseball. Catch a second baseball. Catch two baseballs at one time.

Now look up the word exponential.

Every piece of accompanying material in a vaccine is the body catching a baseball. The volume of each "material" is a consideration. Each individual particle of a "material" should be considered another baseball that has to be caught and dealt with and disposed of. How many particles in a vaccine?

Now the vaccine particles have to contend with/catch each other so to speak.

And they have to catch each other as they age together.

And they have to catch each other as they age together when their temperature goes up.

And they have to catch each other as they age together when their temperature goes up then down.

And they have to catch each other as they age together when their temperature goes up/down 1 degree.

And they have to catch each other when their temperature goes up/down for a minute, an hour, for a day, a week, a month, a year. 1 degree, 5 degrees etc.

And then there is always the possibility of undetected contamination.

Now look up the word permutation.

A baby's, toddler's, child's immune system must contend and "account for" every last particle.

Now multiply that the by the variables, the number of batches and specific manufacturing formulas and manufacturing locations.

Multiply the above by the MMR(3).

I'd say the possible permutations that a toddler's immune system must contend with when getting an MMR vaccine would be larger than the odds of winning every Power Ball drawing in a year. Maybe even 2 or 3 years.

 

[Estellea]

Uh Clay, do you see why this nonsense has been (rightly) moved back to CT? You have offered nothing remotely resembling evidence and continue to rectally-source manufactured ideations of immune system function. Need I remind you that you are arguing with many who have actually studied biology and have professional careers in biomedical fields? Could you perhaps start to answer the many questions asked of you?

Este

 

[Clayton Moore]

No Clay, evidence please not testimonials. I have engaged some of these parents and with a modicum of probing, their stories completely unravel. They change dates and make up diagnoses in order to adhere to some narrative. It's quite pathetic actually.


So be it. Maybe they should be taking care of their children instead of menacing public health.

Este

Your disdain kinda porousnesses your bedside manner.

 

[Bram Kaandorp]

Your disdain kinda porousnesses your bedside manner.

What does that even mean? Does that mean you won't answer my question? If so, just say so, instead of ignoring me.

And don't think I'm hounding you. I won't hound anyone. I'm merely trying to get an answer from you. No more, no less.

 

[jdc324]

GWS victims included many military who never even served in the GULF. Guess what all the GWS victims had in common?

Still banging on pointlessly about GWS and vaccines?

You must be either incredibly stupid or shamelessly dishonest given the earlier discussions on that topic where it was pointed out to you quite clearly, with appropriate evidence, just how wrong you were to claim a link.

Edited by Lisa Simpson: 

Edited to remove breach of the MA.

 

[swright777]

Because we're getting neither from the US. And I choose to believe victims speaking out and up. And I choose not to believe corporate sponsored studies that say vaccines are safe because there actual victims and parents who say otherwise. People don't queue up together and make up false testimonies for personal gain. They and their families have been injured and they will never recover with today's or foreseeable science.

...

Sure they do. People do it all the time. Just look at the Twoofer leaders telling lies to make money. Look at the sovereign/fotl nuts making money from false testimonies. Just take a look. It's everywhere.

 

[dafydd]

What does that even mean? Does that mean you won't answer my question? If so, just say so, instead of ignoring me.

And don't think I'm hounding you. I won't hound anyone. I'm merely trying to get an answer from you. No more, no less.

Man up and answer, Clayton.

 

[Estellea]

Your disdain kinda porousnesses your bedside manner.

What?

Este

 

[dafydd]

Your disdain kinda porousnesses your bedside manner.

What does porousnesses mean? Something can be porous, but I don't see what that has to do with a bedside manner. Is English your first language?

 

[Tomtomkent]

What?

Este

Your disdain is apparently subject to liquids and gas, such as "bedside manner"?

 

[Reality Check]

Clayton Moore. How will you know if your child will be killed by a disease?
First asked 7th January 2013 (2 days and counting)

 

[Clayton Moore]

Reality Check

Clayton Moore. How will you know if your child will be killed by a disease

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Here is a vaccine question for you. How will you know if your child has a serious side effect after receiving a vaccine/vaccines?

That is a rather silly question - No one can know this beforehand.

My question was How will you know if your child has a serious side effect after receiving a vaccine/vaccines?

My question was NOT How will you know if your child WILL HAVE a serious side effect after receiving a vaccine/vaccines?


Reality Check, I'm not here to handhold.

 

[dafydd]

My question was How will you know if your child has a serious side effect after receiving a vaccine/vaccines?

I'm not an expert on vaccination, just like you, but I would hazard a guess that a parent would notice that the child is ill. It seems that you will post anything here except proof that there is a link between vaccination and autism. How about answering the questions put to you?

 

[Estellea]

Reality Check

My question was How will you know if your child has a serious side effect after receiving a vaccine/vaccines?

Biological plausibility and differential diagnosis. It's been done many times. Oh and go see a doctor, not log on to some silly CT web forum full of anti-vaxx loonies and self-diagnose.

Reality Check, I'm not here to handhold.

Answering questions is hand-holding? Yea, you're not doing that either.

Este

 

[Reality Check]

Reality Check

My question was How will you know if your child has a serious side effect after receiving a vaccine/vaccines?

My question was NOT How will you know if your child WILL HAVE a serious side effect after receiving a vaccine/vaccines?

Clayton Moore, so you asked a really trivial question with an obvious answer?
You know that your child has a serious side effect after receiving a vaccine/vaccines when they have a serious side effect which that vaccination can cause.
Duh !

One example: there is no evidence that vaccines cause autism. Thus if your chiild developed autism after vaccination then it is just a result of timing (the vaccination happened at the time that autism is diagnosed).

Another example is the MMR vaccine

10% of children develop fever, malaise and a rash 5–21 days after the first vaccination; 5% develop temporary joint pain.[

Thus if your chiild developed fevor, malise, rashes or joint pain after the MMR vaccination then is is (very probably) a side effect of the vaccine.

I answered your question so answer mine:
Clayton Moore. How will you know if your child will be killed by a disease?
First asked 7th January 2013 (2 days and counting)