John Edward - psychic or what?

[RemieV]

I haven't read all 28 pages of the thread, just the first one, so it's probably that this has already been mentioned. Could it be possible that something happened before you were in line behind Liam? He went to a bar in the casino and had to show ID? He paid for a pack of gum with a credit card at the gift shop? They have cameras all over. It's possible that they tracked him back to something that, even if the employees of the casino didn't know they were involved.

I'm about to sound like I'm arguing on the side of believers everywhere again.

No. John Edward does not use credit card receipts. That it unnecessary for what he does, and if he DID use something like that, then he would have a LOT more hits than he does now. Additionally, in order to see that the names were in the wrong order, he would need another from of ID (which had his middle name as his first) to compare. Otherwise, you're just looking at someone's first and middle name. How do you know that they use the middle as their first from that one piece of information?

 

[Robin1]

Hey Robin.

Just as I was reading a post about a fight over a Philly cheese steak that Guy Feiri dude started blabbing about one on the TV.

I don't know the protocol here: Do I go get one? Do I have a salad? Do I consult the Magic 8-Ball?

Which one of these?

Resume, silly, that hardly counts as a "real" coincidence. You should just order yourself a pizza . : )

 

[Robin1]

Resume, silly, that hardly counts as a "real" coincidence. You should just order yourself a pizza . : )

Resume , true story!! About a few minutes after I told you to order a pizza someone rang my doorbell. I went to the door and opened it. There was a guy standing there with a pizza !!!!!!!!!
Of course, I had ordered the pizza, but I'm sure it means SOMETHING !
Gonna go have dinner now and reflect on it. : )

 

[Resume]

Resume , true story!! About a few minutes after I told you to order a pizza someone rang my doorbell. I went to the door and opened it. There was a guy standing there with a pizza !!!!!!!!!
Of course, I had ordered the pizza, but I'm sure it means SOMETHING !
Gonna go have dinner now and reflect on it. : )

It means you should eat it.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Resume, silly, that hardly counts as a "real" coincidence. You should just order yourself a pizza . : )

Speaking of pizza, can you please explain what it is about Remie's pizza story that leads you to conclude that it couldn't possibly be just a coincidence?

 

[Robin1]

It means you should eat it.

Touché. : )

 

[RemieV]

Speaking of pizza, can you please explain what it is about Remie's pizza story that leads you to conclude that it couldn't possibly be just a coincidence?

Squeegee - At a guess, I'd say it's the sheer number of things involved.

The conversation had to have happened just that way.
A pizza place that delivered to Jeff had to be out of reach (because a pizza deliveryperson isn't going to stop off and pick up a card).
Someone we both knew had to be coming to visit him.
They had to stop at a place that happened to sell cards (and the card was sold at the pizza place itself, by the by, which I've never heard of before).
The mutual friend had to choose to get a card.
The cards sold had to be relevant in a god way.
The mutual friend had to have written what she wrote.

Only that particular formula works for the amount of 'wow'. Change any one thing, and it's a lot less interesting.

 

[meg]

Back to RemieV's OP..

I have to say after rereading the OP, that I think John Edward calling out in Liam's general direction, "I am getting the name Joshua" could just be a regular old "stab in the dark" to get the next person to cold read. Joshua is a popular name, according to babycenter.com it's been in the top 20 for more than 20 years. Chances are quite good that asking any table for a Joshua would get a hit. Almost everybody knows one or is related to one. If no one had responded, he quite likely would have kept right on with "It's a J-S name, then. Jason?. Jesse?.. Joseph?.."

BUT, quite possibly, Liam reacted suddenly. His eyes widened, eyebrows raised, and perhaps he even brought his hand to his chest or face in a quick "Oh my gosh! That's me!" kind of gesture that you did not catch, but John Edward, being a skilled mentalist did, and he leaped on it.

The next part, I've been meaning to ask about, but as the topic was old, wasn't sure whether to bring it back up or not. But here it is, so I'll ask it. Why would John Edward say "he had not introduced himself that way to the rest of his table."?? Is this a common thing for everyone to introduce themselves at a JE event? Did you introduce yourself to the rest of your table? Since JE makes a part of his act calling out names, is that not a clue as to where/how he's getting some of them? It seems quite possible to me, after reading all I have the last couple weeks, that JE could have stooges/plants placed all over the theater, grabbing and feeding small bits of info. Or there could be hidden microphones, and someone else is gathering the info, then feeding it to Edward.

So, anyway, JE threw a shot in the dark and got a hit on Joshua, and because of the whole "introduce yourself" thing, he knew that was not the name Liam had used before for himself. So then he did what good mentalists do. Drag out information so it seems like more than it is, and try to get the client to answer affirmatively as many times as possible, because every "yes" answer feels like a "hit" to the audience, and heightens their wonder and astonishment.

"So..this is strange.. Somehow I'm getting that YOUR name is Joshua?"
"Yes"
"But that is not how you introduced yourself tonight, right?"
"Right/Yes"
"Hand the microphone to someone else... How did this man introduce himself to you?"
"Liam!"

And with that, JE knows that he is not using a typical nickname, and therefore the chance is extremely good that this man is using his middle name, so in a stroke of bravado, he asks Liam to take out his wallet and show his drivers license, because by reading it aloud, it now 'feels' to the audience like JE just scored a double whammy of knowing BOTH names, even though in reality the first was just a random guess, and the second was stated by another person at the table.

 

[RemieV]

Neither Banachek nor Randi nor Jeff Wagg nor myself believes that Edward uses stooges. Again, his readings just aren't usually that good.

For the reading his face thing - Liam was a good forty feet away, and Edward had stage lights in his eyes. Doubtful.

The more probable explanation is simply that the wife called up Edward's team and asked them to surprise her husband. Or that Edward happened to run across the information in an incredibly mundane, unrepeatable, uncatchable way. Having been to another of Edward's shows and read transcripts of others - there really is no mechanism to be had, because he is almost always non-specific. Like, in this instance, there was no "I'm sensing a K" or anything like that. It seemed like he was reading directly out a playbook. But then, that's the ONLY time I have ever seen him be that spot-on.

You'd have to imagine what the room looked like, I suppose, and the rest of the content of the show. For instance, there was a family there about someone who had died in a plane crash, and you could absolutely see the wheels turning in Edward's head - because he figured they were talking about 9/11 and when he first started reading them, that's where he was leaning.

 

[Robin1]

Squeegee - At a guess, I'd say it's the sheer number of things involved.

The conversation had to have happened just that way.
A pizza place that delivered to Jeff had to be out of reach (because a pizza deliveryperson isn't going to stop off and pick up a card).
Someone we both knew had to be coming to visit him.
They had to stop at a place that happened to sell cards (and the card was sold at the pizza place itself, by the by, which I've never heard of before).
The mutual friend had to choose to get a card.
The cards sold had to be relevant in a god way.
The mutual friend had to have written what she wrote.

Only that particular formula works for the amount of 'wow'. Change any one thing, and it's a lot less interesting.

Squeegee, yes, it was all those things Remie listed. Thank you, Remie, for doing that. Also I would add/stress , Remie, that you didn't tell the friend you asked to get the pizza the reason why you wanted her to get it. And you didn't ask her to get a card. Also, no pizzeria I have ever been to either ever sold cards. And I'm guessing the, believing in God if a pizza showed up on his doorstep comment, by Jeff was something he didn't usually say, which would add to it. Not that anything needs to be added, at all! OK , now could ALL of that be a coincidence. Yes. If , and that's a big if, you choose to use coincidence as your fail safe. Even though coincidence is possible here (because coincidence would be possible with ANY story).I believe the conclusion, considering all the details, context etc. is that it is way more likely to be a sign than a coincidence. Way more. Way, way more. Way , way ,way...well, you get the point : )

 

[meg]

I'm just saying, the man introduced himself aloud to his table. And John Edward announced that the man had introduced himself to the table.

More than a coincidence?

 

[RemieV]

I'm just saying, the man introduced himself aloud to his table. And John Edward announced that the man had introduced himself to the table.

More than a coincidence?

Oh, the way the room was set up was with tables like restaurant tables with random groups of people. I was at a table with three people, for instance, and two of them were together and one was flying solo. It's natural, in that situation, to introduce yourself around so I assume most people would. I can't recall if I did or not - probably, because in case anyone DID turn out to be a plant, I wanted my fake name out there.

 

[Resume]

Squeegee, yes, it was all those things Remie listed. Thank you, Remie, for doing that. Also I would add/stress , Remie, that you didn't tell the friend you asked to get the pizza the reason why you wanted her to get it. And you didn't ask her to get a card. Also, no pizzeria I have ever been to either ever sold cards. And I'm guessing the, believing in God if a pizza showed up on his doorstep comment, by Jeff was something he didn't usually say, which would add to it. Not that anything needs to be added, at all! OK , now could ALL of that be a coincidence. Yes. If , and that's a big if, you choose to use coincidence as your fail safe. Even though coincidence is possible here (because coincidence would be possible with ANY story).I believe the conclusion, considering all the details, context etc. is that it is way more likely to be a sign than a coincidence. Way more. Way, way more. Way , way ,way...well, you get the point : )

It's not a fail safe but an explanation that exists quite naturally; there is no need to apply further explanation (as in that Occam's Razor thing) to complicate matters. The only reason to add an entity like a "sign" is to attempt to confirm an existing bias.

ETA: Robin, honestly, think about about coincidence and significance; there are approximately 400 billion galaxies in the observable universe, each containing approximately 100 billion stars. Dream or no dream, what matter is a free Big Mac, pina colada or pizza in the face of these numbers?

 

[Resume]

For the reading his face thing - Liam was a good forty feet away, and Edward had stage lights in his eyes. Doubtful.

Don't doubt it. Once upon a time we played in crowded clubs with stage lights in our eyes and we could consistently identify a comely companion with which to occupy our time after the big shoe.

ETA: The front row usually consisted of friends of the bass player's sister which generally included a curious butch, a talk-talk rebound, and a unibrow with a bad attitude.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Only that particular formula works for the amount of 'wow'. Change any one thing, and it's a lot less interesting.

Forgive me, but I don't see that at all - any one of the details could have been tweaked in myriad ways, some making it less 'wow', but some potentially making it even more 'wow'.

Your positions seems vaguely tautological: Things had to occur "just so", for things to have occurred "just so".

Or so it seems - correct me if I'm off track here.

 

[RemieV]

Forgive me, but I don't see that at all - any one of the details could have been tweaked in myriad ways, some making it less 'wow', but some potentially making it even more 'wow'.

Your positions seems vaguely tautological: Things had to occur "just so", for things to have occurred "just so".

Or so it seems - correct me if I'm off track here.

Apologies. Remove any one thing.

 

[bumlet5]

Oh, the way the room was set up was with tables like restaurant tables with random groups of people. I was at a table with three people, for instance, and two of them were together and one was flying solo. It's natural, in that situation, to introduce yourself around so I assume most people would. I can't recall if I did or not - probably, because in case anyone DID turn out to be a plant, I wanted my fake name out there.

Something to do with hidden mics on the tables? If he has the layout of the floor and knows that a guy at table 3 introduced himself as Mike, he could walk right up to it and say Mike and Mike would be all "Woooooow!"

That doesn't explain how he knew the guys first and last name, but still.

 

[meg]

Something to do with hidden mics on the tables? If he has the layout of the floor and knows that a guy at table 3 introduced himself as Mike, he could walk right up to it and say Mike and Mike would be all "Woooooow!"

That doesn't explain how he knew the guys first and last name, but still.

I just want to point out that JE did not know the man's last name, and he only knew his first name because he called it out to that area, and the man claimed it.

The only thing JE knew, or needed to know to make this trick work, was that the name he introduced himself with was not Joshua. And yes, mics at the table, or someone listening when he introduced himself to Remie or to his table could have gotten that for him.

I'm not sure now which book I read this in, but in one of them, the author stated that he regularly would just randomly ask a woman at his show if her name was Carol. If she answered no, he had a ready joke about it making it look like all part of the show, so it was no big deal, but the thing is that once in a while (more often than you would imagine) it was a hit, and when it did hit, he just looked freaking amazing.

 

[LashL]

Only that particular formula works for the amount of 'wow'. Change any one thing, and it's a lot less interesting.

I don't see any "wow" factor in this at all. I mean, you set out to play a trick, enlisted a friend and told her to do certain things to help you play the trick, and - voila - trick played. There's really no "wow" factor to this at all that I can see.

As for the list of seven things that "had" to happen, the first three and a half are part of the set up for the trick (i.e., the reasons that you thought of playing a trick to start with, and your invoking a friend to help you pull off the trick) and the last three and a half are all really just one thing.

Nah, sorry, no "wow" factor there at all that I can see.

ETA: But see how easy it is for people who, for whatever reason, feel the need to find some deeper meaning in mundane things where none exists, will gladly pounce on a non-event and claim that it is deep and meaningful? It's sad, really. Understandable, but still sad.

 

[RemieV]

I don't see any "wow" factor in this at all. I mean, you set out to play a trick, enlisted a friend and told her to do certain things to help you play the trick, and - voila - trick played. There's really no "wow" factor to this at all that I can see.

As for the list of seven things that "had" to happen, the first three and a half are part of the set up for the trick (i.e., the reasons that you thought of playing a trick to start with, and your invoking a friend to help you pull off the trick) and the last three and a half are all really just one thing.

Nah, sorry, no "wow" factor there at all that I can see.

ETA: But see how easy it is for people who, for whatever reason, feel the need to find some deeper meaning in mundane things where none exists, will gladly pounce on a non-event and claim that it is deep and meaningful? It's sad, really. Understandable, but still sad.

The part that makes it "wow" is that no one knew the reasons. It all fell together without anyone being told anything beyond "Hey - can you pick up pizza for Jeff?"