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RandFan said:
For those that don't know, the burning in the bosom is a very popular Mormon meme.

Burning in the bosom - MormonWiki.org

Holy Ghost/Burning in the bosom - FAIRMormon

It's based on a a number of well understood cognitive phenomena that have been variously exploited by religous leaders, politicians, scam artists and magicians for centuries.

I could link a to a bunch of articles that explain the various cognitive techniques but instead let me give you one example demonstrated by Derren Brown (yes I'm aware that Brown has inflated his claims about psychological priming, etc. doesn't change his point here).

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The absence of an emotional confirmation is seen not as a testimony against Mormonism, but rather against the sincerity of the one praying
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IOW if you don't get it it's your fault.
 
Surprise, surprise: it's them ole powerz of darkenness

Janadele said:
Truth is not changed nor denigrated because there are those who refuse to accept or recognise it.

Truth stands as a beacon despite assault from the powers of darkness. :)
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That is a child's anwer. Seriously now, let's be grownups.

Some -- many! -- thinking people disparage and criticise Mormonism. Why is that?
 
tsig said:
IOW if you don't get it it's your fault.
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:)

Here's the rub. If you believe god will answer you then he will. If you don't, he won't.

James 1:5 said:
But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavers is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
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That's some catch don't you think? Is it any wonder that as a Mormon I often felt like Yossarian (see clip)?

 
Shalamar said:
Do you believe everything You're told without question then? Because that is what you are doing here.
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What Janadele is doing here is to not believe everything she is being told by you and others. Yes, I know, that isn't what you meant, but the irony inherent in your syntax amuses.
 
skyrider44 said:
What Janadele is doing here is to not believe everything she is being told by you and others. Yes, I know, that isn't what you meant, but the irony inherent in your syntax amuses.
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She is refusing to answer or even to question. Since she holds her beliefs to be true without fault, anything that contradicts this is automatically wrong, and thus a lie, even is shown to actually not be the case.

If I said that God spoke to me, and proclaimed me to be His prophet would anyone here believe me? if not, why not?
 
Shalamar said:
She is refusing to answer or even to question. Since she holds her beliefs to be true without fault, anything that contradicts this is automatically wrong, and thus a lie, even is shown to actually not be the case.

If I said that God spoke to me, and proclaimed me to be His prophet would anyone here believe me? if not, why not?
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the darth vader avatar would be a good hint!
 
skyrider44 said:
What Janadele is doing here is to not believe everything she is being told by you and others. Yes, I know, that isn't what you meant, but the irony inherent in your syntax amuses.
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Unfortunately, you don't get the irony in your own statement. What she is doing is not listening to facts that go against her unreasoned beliefs.

Perhaps you could answer the many unanswered questions about the anachronisms? Janadele is blind and deaf to them.
 
Then there is the whole issue of how Joseph Smith,because he did not relize that the English Language had changed between the first decade of the 1600's (when the KJV version of the bible was published) and the 1820's took the term "Fetched A Compass" in "Acts" to mean that compasses existed in ancient time, when in fact Compass, in Elizabethan English, meant "Circle" and "Fetched a Compass meant "Make a Circle"....
 
I've been reading through The Articles of Faith. For the most part, they are the things you'd expect of most any religion; these are more plainly written then most, though.

I particularly respect the pragmatism of Article 12 and the ethical standard set in 13:

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
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Good stuff.

On the other hand, I think the list set itself up for a big fall with Article 8:
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
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The double standard is its failing.
 
skyrider44 said:
What Janadele is doing here is to not believe everything she is being told by you and others. Yes, I know, that isn't what you meant, but the irony inherent in your syntax amuses.
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If there's irony, perhaps it's in your assumption that the original statement included a " by just anybody" that was not there, though I suppose that Kerikiwi should have qualified his statement just to avoid catcalls from the peanut gallery. What Janadel is doing is to believe everything she is told (by those she has deemed authoritative) and that belief is, by her own declaration unequivocal, and circular insofar as the authority of those sources is granted by the scriptures they pronounce as authoritative.
 
bruto said:
If there's irony, perhaps it's in your assumption that the original statement included a " by just anybody" that was not there, though I suppose that Kerikiwi should have qualified his statement just to avoid catcalls from the peanut gallery. What Janadel is doing is to believe everything she is told (by those she has deemed authoritative) and that belief is, by her own declaration unequivocal, and circular insofar as the authority of those sources is granted by the scriptures they pronounce as authoritative.
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Yep, she believes the church because it has authority and she believes it has authority because it says it has authority.
 
skyrider44 said:
What Janadele is doing here is to not believe everything she is being told by you and others. Yes, I know, that isn't what you meant, but the irony inherent in your syntax amuses.
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We aren't telling her to believe anything. We are engaging in a debate. It's how philosophers and scientists hash out the truth. It's a process that goes back all the way to the Greek philosophers.
 
RoboTimbo said:
Unfortunately, you don't get the irony in your own statement. What she is doing is not listening to facts that go against her unreasoned beliefs.

Perhaps you could answer the many unanswered questions about the anachronisms? Janadele is blind and deaf to them.
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Critics of the LDS Church (and religion in general) operate from a no-God paradigm. Thus, since there is no God (in their opinion), the historicity and teachings of a religion are rife with error; in fact, none of it is acceptable. Once a critic embraces that paradigm, there is nothing a faith-based person can say that will be acceptable.

I should add that there was a time, in a more civil age, when it was considered boorish and coarse to denigrate a person's faith, and--by extrapolation--the person himself/herself. Obviously the practice of good manners and mutual respect--in religious belief and virtually everything else--is now ancient history.
 
skyrider44 said:
Critics of the LDS Church (and religion in general) operate from a no-God paradigm. Thus, since there is no God (in their opinion), the historicity and teachings of a religion are rife with error; in fact, none of it is acceptable.
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It's not wrong because there's no God, it's wrong because it contradicts reality.
 
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