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Janadele said:
Personally I have no interest in refuting anything in the Book of Mormon. It is Scripture, as is the Holy Bible, Pearl of Great Price, and Doctrine and Covenants.

The following link to Fair addresses such issues for those who have concerns,
Fair is not an official LDS site.
http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Anachronisms
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You weren't being asked to refute anything. You were being asked whether you accept that the Book of Mormon contains errors.
 
I love the book of Abraham. It is enlightening. This is one of my favourites:

In the Pearl of Great Price. The Book of Abraham, Chapter 3 verses 22 to 27 we read:

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the Noble and Great ones;

23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and He stood in the midst of them, and He said: These I will make my rulers; for He stood among those that were Spirits, and he saw that they were good; and He said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and He said unto those who were with Him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

Cleon said:
Yes, I'm sure you don't want to talk about the blatant fraud that is the "Book of Abraham."
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Red Worm,
We are His Children.

TheRedWorm said:
I asked this in another thread, and I'll ask it again here, as no one responded.

Why would a being as powerful as believers think that god is give too much of a care about our brand of particularly hairless ape?
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RandFan said:
Fawn Brodie was a decent honest and very intelligent woman. Her work is scholarly and has stood the test of time and there is no evidence that Brodie was malicious.
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All true.

I would only opine that maybe Brodie was a little too much the psychologist-historian, that is, she enjoyed shrinking her subjects' heads more than is necessary to tell their stories. Certainly in our own time we've learned to identify a smirking con-man like J. Smith after just one whiff of snake-oil, and don't need to analyse him very extensively. The narcissistic personality is easy to detect, and, once detected, easy to avoid.

I think Brodie rather liked Smith, maybe even had a crush on him (many did), and was saddened by his trajectory. Malice? She saved that for worthier targets, like Richard Nixon.

No Man Knows Etc. would make one helluva fine movie. A comedy, of course.
 
Janadele said:
That is not so Rand. Being excommunicated is not a light matter.
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She was excommunicated for her conscience.

The Mormon Church has the right to kick her out of the Church but it demonstrates absolutely nothing and an attempt to use the excommunication as proof of something is a fallacy as it's self serving. The Mormon Church is not a neutral party. You can't use a self serving act to demonstrate anything.

BTW: It's what all cults do. It's actually one of the signs of a cult. Shaming. Ostracizing. IMO: It's a monstrous thing that often divides families unnecessarily. The purpose of religion is to control people and make money. The best way to make money is to get people to give it to you for doing nothing.

You wanta make real money, you gotta start a religion! --L. Ron Hubbard
 
Janadele said:
Pup... Our Heavenly Father is the greatest of all mathematicians and scientists, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not refute true science, but certainly does not support the theories of Darwin... as also does not Henry Eyring. The word evolution does not automatically mean human beings come from monkeys... far from it. I would suggest you read Henry Eyrings books for the real meanings and not take words out of context or from dubious publications.
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So how do you feel about Stephen L. Peck? Those were his own words I quoted, with a link to a complete essay he wrote and chose to have published in a Salt Lake City newspaper, which seems to meet your standard of evidence above.

You simply cannot escape the fact that there are many faithful members of the LDS Church in good standing, who support the theory of evolution and the fact that humans evolved from animals.

Refusing to believe it is your choice, but it is not a requirement to be a member of the church, and your words above would be in conflict with many members of the church. Including my wife. :)
 
Shalamar: Of course not, why would they?

The responsibility of holding the Priesthood of God is only given to worthy males.

Women have the sacred duty of Motherhood... they also teach, speak at services, play the organ, sing in choirs... and assist in many important ways.

They do not need to "Hold offices of power over men".

Shalamar said:
Janadele... Can women even be priests? Hold offices of power over men In your religion?
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Janadele said:
Shalamar: Of course not, why would they?

The responsibility of holding the Priesthood of God is only given to worthy males.

Women have the sacred duty of Motherhood... they also teach, speak at services, play the organ, sing in choirs... and assist in many important ways.

They do not need to "Hold offices of power over men".
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And why not? Women can be, and are, leaders of industry, CEO's of companies, and even rulers of countries. Why would your church limit women who would have the capacity to lead well, and force them to merely 'assist'?

This is only one of the bigoted things I do not like about your religion. It holds people back.
 
RandFan said:
BYU teaches evolution.

BYU:Evolution and the Origin of Man
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BTW: That is the Church's official postition and not the BYU course. Sorry.

The scriptures tell why man was created, but they do not tell how...

Leave geology, biology, archaeology, and anthropology, no one of which has to do with the salvation of the soul of mankind, to scientific research, while we magnify our calling in the realm of the Church....
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25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
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And what of those who do not "keep their estates"? Is it -in your heart- morally acceptable for a higher being to play favorites?

It makes me think of Noah's flood. So many Christians seem to just focus on the handful of survivors, and completely wave off the deliberate destruction of everyone else. The idea that it's morally acceptable for God to commit genocide in order to prove a point is something I cannot wrap my head around.

Mormonism is clearly no different. You have those you believe made all the right choices, and they are the favorites...and on down the line 'til you reach those who heard a different drummer, and they are outcasts or worse.

How do you reconcile that? How can you think that through and decide it's okay?
 
Janadele said:
Shalamar: Of course not, why would they?

The responsibility of holding the Priesthood of God is only given to worthy males.

Women have the sacred duty of Motherhood... they also teach, speak at services, play the organ, sing in choirs... and assist in many important ways.

They do not need to "Hold offices of power over men".
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May I ask why you think men need to hold offices of power over women?
And what are the consequences for women who fail to fulfill their scared duty of motherhood?

Oh, and may I also ask that you quote first, then reply.
It is a more logical sequence.
 
Cleon said:
s/demonstrable/blatant/.

It must've sounded really good back before we learned how to read Egyptian hieroglyphics.
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Oh yeah. Funny thing is that the Rosetta Stone had already been discovered (1799) ensuring the montebank would eventually be exposed.
 
Ever watch the TV series, The Prisoner? It is something of an underground classic, and well-worth the viewing time. In one of the episodes (Episode 6, curiously enough), all the residents of the village are exposed to "Speed Learn" in which a three-year college sequence in history is instilled in a matter of minutes.

There are several aspects of the episode I won't dwell on here (although they are topical); I bring it up because it turned out that the students of Speed Learn translated any question they were asked into one of the questions they were taught.

I have now asked twice, Janadele, about how do you know that most dead mortals await one of the ordinances by proxy. Each time, you have responded to a question I did not ask. Perhaps my question was easily misinterpreted, so permit me to try again:

Please, you said:
Most deceased mortals are waiting anxiously for their families to do this work for them
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How do you know that it is most dead mortals, not just some; and how do you know they wait anxiously?
 
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