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ShadowSot said:
Based on past history, she will not address his at all. Either she will direct you to the LDS website or simply dismiss this as devil work.

I don't think she's a troll, just someone who has bought in full the CURRENT story told by the Mormon Church.
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Fixed that for you. In discussing moronism with the mormons who come around to the door, my experience has been that they receive a very whitewashed version of their own history, and are poorly prepared to answer questions about the actual historic practices of their church beyond stating that whatever this year's version says is how it's always been, back to the very beginning of time. Janadele is not going to be able to discuss such things as the her religion's opinion of the subhuman nature of the african race, the ethics of the Mountain Meadows Massacre, the plagiarism in the book of mormon, the frauds and crimes perpetrated by the founder, the planet where god lives, how many wives a man should take, or any other issue of her religion's history because all she's heard on those matters are lies and she's both ignorant of any proper history and unwilling to expose herself to information that might conflict with what she already 'knows'.

TLDR: Just another ignorant dogmatist.
 
AdMan said:
Is this a mission that the church instills in you, or did you decide on it yourself? Just curious.
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Oh, that's a great question. Well, there's no question that the church inculcates the idea of going on a mission. Parent's and peers put a lot of pressure to go. I've known people who went who didn't believe because to refuse to go would cause a lot of trouble. Some kids are promised college financial help if they go on missions. I went because I wanted to. I'm sure I wanted to in large part because of a lifetime of indoctrination. But I was a true believer and I was excited to go. When the Church changed the length of missions while I was out and I had the choice to go home after 18 months and I chose to say.
 
Andrew Wiggin said:
Fixed that for you. In discussing moronism with the mormons who come around to the door, my experience has been that they receive a very whitewashed version of their own history, and are poorly prepared to answer questions about the actual historic practices of their church beyond stating that whatever this year's version says is how it's always been, back to the very beginning of time. Janadele is not going to be able to discuss such things as the her religion's opinion of the subhuman nature of the african race, the ethics of the Mountain Meadows Massacre, the plagiarism in the book of mormon, the frauds and crimes perpetrated by the founder, the planet where god lives, how many wives a man should take, or any other issue of her religion's history because all she's heard on those matters are lies and she's both ignorant of any proper history and unwilling to expose herself to information that might conflict with what she already 'knows'.

TLDR: Just another ignorant dogmatist.
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Fair point, and well matches what I've seen of her posting style.
I'd further add she seems to enjoy the martyr position.
 
Janadele said:
No.
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Oh come now, surely you can do something better than parrot facts and "I'm rubber, your glue, neener neener?"

Oh wait, there's the dismissing everything else as being the work of the devil.
See... that's just not going to work at all. You need to do something else.
 
ShadowSot said:
Oh excellent debating technique, points off however as you've already used that line. Tell you what, next time make some insulting insinuations against his mother.
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Good on you. That always works. I'll surely find god if reminded that my mother was a hamster and my father smelt of elderberries.
 
RandFan said:
I don't find Janadele to be a troll. I'll concede I've not engaged with her until recently but, IMO, her behavior isn't trollish.
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Yeah, you're probably right. I have debated with Jehovah's Witnesses who often say give the same "I refer you to the dogma of XYZ" as their answer to questions or arguments that are about the very dogma of XYZ.

Me: "How can I trust the accuracy of this Biblical source?"
JW: "Because the Bible tells us it is the Word of the Lord." etc...

Interestingly, the Mormon missionaries I meet here in Japan have never tried to overtly proselytize to me but have generally been friendly and polite. Is that because they are also asked to try to raise the image of the Church or could it be that most of them just happen to be nice people?

However, this kind of thing is the type of thing I am talking about:

Janadele said:
Gender is an eternal characteristic. There is no negotiation on the gender of our Spirit. To abide by Eternal Law celibacy is the only option if for some genuine reason the gender of the Spirit is unknown.
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RandFan said:
To begin with, this is contradicted by biological evidence. There is a large body of work to support the idea that even if we have a spirit, we as individuals have contradictory perceptions.

Split brain with one half atheist and one half theist

What gender is the spirit of a hermaphrodite or a person with Klinefelter syndrome?
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Janadele said:
Rand, the previous post to which you refer is the answer.
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In that you are correct, it was not. But neither were the opposing posts.:p

As I consider my earlier previous posts were worthwhile, and you do not, then what is the point ?

Andrew Wiggin said:
OK, you deserve a fair chance... Prove it. Say something that isn't ignorant, dogmatic, or both. Hint; the above wasn't it.
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Janadele said:
As I consider my earlier previous posts were worthwhile, and you do not, then what is the point ?
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As far as I can see, there is no point to this thread.

The problem is that you're talking to people who think beliefs need to be justified, especially when they contradict established scientific fact as a lot of Mormon beliefs do.

If the only way you can justify your beliefs is to quote official LDS doctrine which simply asserts that they are true then there is no prospect of any kind of meaningful discussion with people whose own research has convinced them that that official doctrine is childish made up nonsense.
 
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No that is not the plain truth of the matter... fact is I would have to write a book to do so. Keep to one single topic at a time :)
Dinwar said:
Apparently polite requests also get ignored. You've not yet responded to a single thing I've posted... I'm sorry, but that's the plane truth of the matter.
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Janadele said:
The proof is within you.

Intelligence, or the light of truth was not created nor made. The elements are eternal. All that exists has always existed without a beginning.
One who organizes materials in a completely new way, by organizing the existing matter available, is a creator.

The creation was twofold—first spiritual, secondly temporal.

The glory of God is intelligence. We were all at different stages of progression in our pre mortal existence, and of graded intelligences. The veil which cloaks our rememberances allows recognition of the truths we knew and also understanding of Eternal Laws... if we will listen.
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Sanctimonious gibberish

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/moses?lang=eng
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When I said proof, I meant real proof, not a work of fiction.
 
Janadele said:
Discussions of actual LDS beliefs is fine... but posting nonsense as being LDS when it is not LDS is not. I do not respond to anti Mormon propaganda. This is my choice and my right. Insults, bullying, and rude demands will not influence nor change my decision to not engage in pointless arguments or discussion on material which is false, misleading garbage. Whereas I will respond to genuine questions or criticisms of actual LDS beliefs.
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Here is a genuine question. Do you believe that the Hindu gods exist? The Hindus have their holy books too.
 
Janadele said:
Discussions of actual LDS beliefs is fine... but posting nonsense as being LDS when it is not LDS is not. I do not respond to anti Mormon propaganda. This is my choice and my right. Insults, bullying, and rude demands will not influence nor change my decision to not engage in pointless arguments or discussion on material which is false, misleading garbage. Whereas I will respond to genuine questions or criticisms of actual LDS beliefs.
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I don't understand. Everything you believe about your faith is a lie. How could pointing out those lies to you be off topic? You can't possibly expect that here, in this forum we would do anything else.

Or perhaps you'd care to prove that there was cultivated barely in pre-Columbian America.
 
Actual LDS beliefs and teachings are not off topic... obviously.
Fabrications are.
 
Janadele said:
Bikewer,AdMan, JeanFromBNA, Hud: Regurgitated anti Mormon lies and misleading false propaganda is not on topic to an LDS thread.
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Actually I asked a question more about politics than the religion, because I am mostly ignorant about LDS beliefs. You really could have answered it any way you wanted to. Not sure why you would label it "lies" or "propaganda."

AdMan said:
Posting about the LDS and the obvious lies and nonsense it is spreading is on topic in a thread about Mormonism.

If you feel any posts are off topic, feel free to report them.

Otherwise, respond to the posts or admit you can't do it.

Mormonism is quite obviously made-up BS. Nobody who looks at this religion with a genuinely critical eye can conclude otherwise.
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(bolding mine)

The OP was so vague and wide open it seemed to me that any questions related to Mormonism were welcome. Apparently that's not the case. :confused:
 
Janadele said:
Actual LDS beliefs and teachings are not off topic... obviously.
Fabrications are.
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Yeah, it's pretty obvious that when it can be proved Smith fabricated the entire thing you consider that off-topic. You're one step away from spam here.
 
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