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John Edward - psychic or what?

Of course a girl turning around and coming back is far more Earth-shattering than 911.
 
batvette said:
Wow, that's amazingly relevant and also convenient you've provided the argument for me better than I could have.

The author of that article, while also describing others' bad memories, also has no problem with his own recollection of where he was and what he was doing on 9/11:
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So you didn't understand the article?

pro-tip: it's about how memories are assembled and reassembled.
 
batvette said:
And he doesn't offer any further contradictory anecdotes about his whereabouts that day.

It seems both of your "substantiating" articles were written by incredible hypocrites. The world has such bad memory capacity, but not us.
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You clearly failed to understand the very quote you were responding to.
 
batvette said:
Wow, that's amazingly relevant and also convenient you've provided the argument for me better than I could have.

The author of that article, while also describing others' bad memories, also has no problem with his own recollection of where he was and what he was doing on 9/11:



And he doesn't offer any further contradictory anecdotes about his whereabouts that day.

It seems both of your "substantiating" articles were written by incredible hypocrites. The world has such bad memory capacity, but not us.
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Your memory of the article seems to be faulty. Read it again.
 
As I said before, apparently the only people in the whole world who don't suffer from the fallibility of human memory are those who advocate paranormal positions on that JREF forum. It's just uncanny. Elsewhere I have demonstrated how someone's UFO story changed over many years in posting here on the forums. I have also recounted stories of how my own memory proved to be flawed and even about significant events in my life. But these are all anecdotes. The articles linked have actual data about memory and if one wanted to research it one could read many books on the subject.


By the way, let's not miss the point that, even if batvette's recollection of his story is 100% perfectly accurate, it proves nothing about telepathy. Some chick turned around and said what. For like the fifth or sixth time, paranormal things are so boring and mundane.
 
This is one of many professional articles available, in case you don't like newspaper articles.

Authors:
Bernstein, Daniel M., University of Washington, Seattle, WA, US
Nourkova, Veronika, Moscow State University, Moscow, Russia
Loftus, Elizabeth F., University of California, Irvine, CA, US
Source:
Advances in psychology research (Vol 54). Columbus, Alexandra M. (Ed.); pp. 157-181. Hauppauge, NY, US: Nova Science Publishers, Vol 54, 2008. xiii, 314 pp.
ISBN:
1-60456-129-7 (Hardcover)
978-1-60456-129-6 (Hardcover)
Language:
English
Keywords:
memory, personal memory, collective past, memory error, collective history, personal history, memory distortion, oral history
Abstract:
(from the chapter) Memory plays a vital role in the formation and maintenance of one's own past and the collective past of a people or nation. Memory, unfortunately, is highly susceptible to distortion and error. It is therefore, important to understand how memory can transform what "was" into what "appeared to be" in order to understand how memory errors can creep into and shape personal and collective history. In this chapter, we explore how and why memory tends to distort the past. Such distortions are a natural consequence of our attempts to reconstruct our experiences. With reconstruction comes distortion. The history that depends upon memory may be no better than the memory upon which it is based. Because oral history relies almost exclusively upon memory, it might be argued that oral history serves to reiterate what is, at best, a distorted recollection of the past. We describe some of the ways in which cognitive psychologists conceive of memory, and the ways in which memory operates. We then discuss various laboratory techniques that have been used to distort memory for personal experiences. Next, we explore the difficulty in distinguishing true and false memories. Finally, we present a framework for understanding personal memories within the larger context of collective and historical memories. We argue that the mechanism responsible for the formation of false personal memories may also underlie the creation of false historical memories. Understanding the fallibility of personal memories, we suggest, can tell us much about inaccuracies inherent in collective and historical memories. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2012 APA, all rights reserved)
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Using a videotape clip to demonstrate the fallibility of eyewitness testimony.
Authors:
Gee, Nancy R.
Dyck, Jennifer L.
Source:
Teaching of Psychology; 1998, Vol. 25 Issue 2, p138, 3p
Document Type:
Article
Subject Terms:
*EYEWITNESS identification
*FALLIBILITY
*MEMORY
Abstract:
Presents information on a classroom demonstration which used a videotape clip of a robbery, to highlight the issue of eyewitness testimony. Analysis of a multiple-choice test which students were required to perform; Performance of the students; Discussion on the fallibility of the memory for eyewitness events.
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And another one.
 
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And here is another one:

Accusations by Adults of Childhood Sexual Abuse: a Survey of the Members of the British False Memory Society (BFMS)
Author:
Gudjonsson, Gisli, Institute of Psychiatry, King's College, London, United Kingdom, g.gudjonsson@iop.kcl.ac.uk*
Address:
Gudjonsson, Gisli, Institute of Psychiatry, King's College Denmark Hill, London, United Kingdom, SE5 8AF, g.gudjonsson@iop.kcl.ac.uk*
Source:
The British Journal of Psychiatry, Vol 195(6), Dec, 2009. pp. 559-560.
Page Count:
2
Publisher:
United Kingdom: Royal College of Psychiatrists.
Other Journal Titles:
Journal of Mental Science
Reviewed Item:
Sabbagh, Karl. (2009). Remembering our childhood. How memory betrays us; Oxford University Press. £16.99. 240pp, 9780199218400 (Hardcover).
ISSN:
1472-1465 (Electronic)
0007-1250 (Print)
Language:
English
Keywords:
childhood memories, recovered memories, patients' perspectives
Abstract:
Reviews the book, "Remembering Our Childhood. How Memory Betrays us" by Karl Sabbagh (see record 2008-14594-000). The author's remarkable book confirms the brave conclusions of the working group from more than 10 years ago, but it shows that we have come a long way in furthering the understanding of the fallibility of childhood memories since Brandon et al's publication. What makes this book so remarkable is that it takes the reader on a thought-provoking scientific journey through the development of memory from infancy to adulthood and illustrates the range of developmental, contextual and individual factors that may interfere with and contaminate the memory process. The book demonstrates well the bitter 'memory wars' among 'experts' and how the fallibility in belief systems is the key to understanding the development of recovered memories and its potential for miscarriage of justice.
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And one more.

An overview of the neuro-cognitive processes involved in the encoding, consolidation, and retrieval of true and false memories.
Authors:
Straube, Benjamin
Source:
Behavioral & Brain Functions; 2012, Vol. 8 Issue 1, p35-44, 10p
Document Type:
Article
Subject Terms:
*ENCODING
*FALSE memory syndrome
*ERRORS & omissions insurance
*INFORMATION retrieval
*NEUROPHYSIOLOGIC monitoring
Author-Supplied Keywords:
Brain
Consolidation
Encoding
False memory
Functional magnetic resonance imaging
Memory biases
Retrieval
Self-reference
Abstract:
Perception and memory are imperfect reconstructions of reality. These reconstructions are prone to be influenced by several factors, which may result in false memories. A false memory is the recollection of an event, or details of an episode, that did not actually occur. Memory formation comprises at least three different sub-processes: encoding, consolidation and the retrieval of the learned material. All of these sub-processes are vulnerable for specific errors and consequently may result in false memories. Whereas, processes like imagery, self-referential encoding or spreading activation can lead to the formation of false memories at encoding, semantic generalization during sleep and updating processes due to misleading post event information, in particular, are relevant at the consolidation stage. Finally at the retrieval stage, monitoring processes, which are assumed to be essential to reject false memories, are of specific importance. Different neuro-cognitive processes have been linked to the formation of true and false memories. Most consistently the medial temporal lobe and the medial and lateral prefrontal cortex have been reported with regard to the formation of true and false memories. Despite the fact that all phases entailing memory formation, consolidation of stored information and retrieval processes, are relevant for the forming of false memories, most studies focused on either memory encoding or retrieval. Thus, future studies should try to integrate data from all phases to give a more comprehensive view on systematic memory distortions. An initial outline is developed within this review to connect the different memory stages and research strategies.
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Recovered memories, satanic abuse, Dissociative Identity Disorder and false memories in the UK: a survey of Clinical Psychologists and Hypnotherapists.
Authors:
Ost, James1
Wright, Dan B.2
Easton, Simon1
Hope, Lorraine1
French, Christopher C.3
Source:
Psychology, Crime & Law; Jan2013, Vol. 19 Issue 1, p1-19, 19p, 4 Charts
Document Type:
Article
Subject Terms:
*MULTIPLE personality
*FALSE memory syndrome
*RITUAL abuse
*CLINICAL psychologists
*HYPNOTHERAPISTS
*INTERNET surveys
Geographic Terms:
GREAT Britain
Author-Supplied Keywords:
beliefs
false memory
recovered memory
sexual abuse
therapy
Abstract:
An online survey was conducted to examine psychological therapists' experiences of, and beliefs about, cases of recovered memory, satanic/ritualistic abuse, Multiple Personality Disorder/Dissociative Identity Disorder, and false memory. Chartered Clinical Psychologists (n=183) and Hypnotherapists (n=119) responded. In terms of their experiences, Chartered Clinical Psychologists reported seeing more cases of satanic/ritualistic abuse compared to Hypnotherapists who, in turn, reported encountering more cases of childhood sexual abuse recovered for the first time in therapy, and more cases of suspected false memory. Chartered Clinical Psychologists were more likely to rate the essential accuracy of reports of satanic/ritualistic abuse as higher than Hypnotherapists. Belief in the accuracy of satanic/ritualistic abuse and Multiple Personality Disorder/Dissociative Identity Disorder reports correlated negatively with the belief that false memories were possible.
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Just in case you are not used to reading academic jargon, let me translate the last few sentences:

“Clinical Psychologists saw more cases that they identified as SRA than Hypnotherapists did, and were more ready to believe them. Hypnotherapists saw more cases that they identified as childhood sexual abuse and possible false memory syndrome. People who believe in SRA and MPD/DID are less likely to believe that false memories are possible.”
 
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xterra said:
This is one of many professional articles available, in case you don't like newspaper articles.
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I don't remember what we were talking about. What's my name? And where am I?
Gee how did those researchers even remember what they were writing about before they wrote it down? And what forum is this again?

I'm soooo confused.

LOL. This HAS been a lot of fun. You've heard my story, file or flush at will- but if you see me telling it again in ten years...

It'll be the same. Thank you for listening, and for most of you, admirable patience and refraining from the typical internet flame jobs.
 
batvette said:
I don't remember what we were talking about. What's my name? And where am I?
Gee how did those researchers even remember what they were writing about before they wrote it down? And what forum is this again?

I'm soooo confused.

LOL. This HAS been a lot of fun. You've heard my story, file or flush at will- but if you see me telling it again in ten years...

It'll be the same. Thank you for listening, and for most of you, admirable patience and refraining from the typical internet flame jobs.
Click to expand...

Thank you for ignoring all the evidence.
 
batvette said:
LOL. This HAS been a lot of fun. You've heard my story, file or flush at will- but if you see me telling it again in ten years...

It'll be the same. Thank you for listening, and for most of you, admirable patience and refraining from the typical internet flame jobs.
Click to expand...

batvette,

Please do me the courtesy of reading the four abstracts I posted, just because I went to the trouble of finding them and getting them into shape for the forum.

If you do read them, please tell me that you have done so and whether you understand why they are important.
 
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xterra said:
batvette,

Please do me the courtesy of reading the four abstracts I posted, just because I went to the trouble of finding them and getting them into shape for the forum.

If you do read them, please tell me that you have done so and whether you understand why they are important.
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I live in the county where Darryl Akiki was tried, this is not a matter I am unfamiliar with.
Nor am I a small child claiming Satanic Ritual Abuse with my day care school teacher featuring farm and circus animals.
I'm quite familiar with the work of former FBI LA SAIC Ted Gunderson, toward SRA and various kidnappings and disappearances.
The whole SRA story is a snakepit of never ending BS. Gunderson being a principal figure.
I consume the written word at a rapid rate, with acceptable comprehension. In later grades of elementary school that was around 1000 wpm. Funny enough I don't remember what grade that placement test was in, but that was the fastest score that year of anyone in my grade in the Santa Clara County Unified School District. At least that's what they told my parents two months later when they were baffled why I was getting C's instead of A's. Typical of ADHD, short term memory loss with often photographic recollection of episodic long term memory.
As well as being too candid about personal details. :-)
A page you offer me today I might recall near verbatim should the issue be debated by me 5 years from now, and I will scan it in 30 seconds. Yet I'm going to lose my car keys twice before I get out the door, if I can even remember where I was headed before I did.
I happily research relevant substantiating links, even when offered to support positions I disagree with.
That was noise, in an effort to push a point which really is pointless.
From a debate POV you should have recognized the epic phail inherent to two articles which attempt to argue people cannot remember what they were doing when the news of 9/11 broke, with both authors accurately describing what they were doing when they heard the news.

I'm pretty sure if I was pushed a year or so after that night I may have been able to tell you what song was playing on the radio the minute she walked out the door. I had to shut it out to relax, as I counted from 10 to 1, while I hoped I really could slow my heart, and not feel my feet on the floor, or smell the salt air as it drifted in from the open door. If you really did the research on memory you may have run across passages which detail how sometimes we can go back and pull sequences like that with almost cinematic clarity. For some reason with all the clutter in my house I can do it with objects in drawers and boxes too.

But damn those car keys.

You know, for you to be secure with your own position on this issue, it really is not necessary for you to demonstrate that everyone who holds the opposite position, is wrong or can be discredited. Especially when I've acknowledged your position, from the information available to you, is perfectly valid.

Cheers.
 
Femke said:
xterra, these were great finds, thank you. Even if batvette still refuses to be as human as the rest of us are, I am grateful for these reminders.
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Ad hominems are not necessary, even when craftily implied.

Each of our human faults can be assumed to be somewhat different. I display more than enough. Including not knowing when to walk away from arguments.
 
batvette said:
I consume the written word at a rapid rate, with acceptable comprehension. In later grades of elementary school that was around 1000 wpm. Funny enough I don't remember what grade that placement test was in, but that was the fastest score that year of anyone in my grade in the Santa Clara County Unified School District. At least that's what they told my parents two months later when they were baffled why I was getting C's instead of A's. Typical of ADHD, short term memory loss with often photographic recollection of episodic long term memory.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

Perhaps at too rapid a rate as you completely missed the points of any of the offered links.
 
batvette said:
From a debate POV you should have recognized the epic phail inherent to two articles which attempt to argue people what they were doing when the news of 9/11 broke, with both authors accurately describing what they were doing when they heard the news.
Click to expand...

Please revisit that article.

The "epic phail" is really your misunderstanding of what the authors were saying.

I clearly remember being in a hotel room in Athens, Greece watching CNN World when the news started breaking about planes hitting towers on 9/11. Yet if someone corrected me on that point, my reaction would be, "Wow! I would have sworn..." and move on. I know for a fact that my memory is not like a tape recorder, and the farther removed I am from an incident in time, the more likely I may have details, either major or minor, wrong. That's not a failing, that's how brains work.
 
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