School shooting: but don't mention guns!

[Nessie]

Yeah, I just went back over Nessie's post. I completely misread what he was writing. I'm sorry Nessie.

We are cool

 

[Belz...]

I'm not saying any such thing. People shouldn't let their emotions drive them to make poor policy decisions just for the sake of "For God's sake, won't somebody DO SOMETHING?".

I get as emotional over tragic untimely deaths caused by cars and swimming pools as I do over tragic untimely deaths caused by murderers, but not everyone has to be like me.

Very well then. I'll retract that and I apologise.

 

[Belz...]

I beg your pardon? What does that mean? Did you mean "Isn't ambiguity great?" because your statement is quite ambiguous to me.

Telling someone that they're deluded out of the blue like that without asking for context is easy when you're sitting behind a computer screen, is what I meant.

 

[Belz...]

I know what an ad hominem attack is (or at least I used to). Handwaving me away like you did Zeggman though is telling wrt your debating style. Pedantry noted as well.

So you also don't know what handwaving and pedantry are. Seriously, communicating like that is hard.

I communicated my opinion, based on my previous dealings with zeggman in the theatre shooting thread earlier this year, that that poster had this kind of thing going. Since he cleared that up, it's a moot point, but it wasn't an argument, and therefore isn't an ad hominem. I also didn't handwave you, and I wasn't pedantic.

Zeggman may very well know nothing about human emotion, but he can have a valid, rational discussion about school shootings without emotions.

Indeed, though my post wasn't about that.

 

[DJW]

So you also don't know what handwaving and pedantry are. Seriously, communicating like that is hard.

Yeah, I do know what handwaving and pedantry are. Starting a reply to anyone with an admonishment about spelling is pedantry. I know how to spell. You know I know how to spell. If I make a mistake spelling something, it's not from lack of spelling knowledge. It's a mistake.

Handwaving, well, that might be true. You didn't handwave me, because you did reply with effort. I'm sorry.

I communicated my opinion, based on my previous dealings with zeggman in the theatre shooting thread earlier this year, that that poster had this kind of thing going. Since he cleared that up, it's a moot point, but it wasn't an argument, and therefore isn't an ad hominem. I also didn't handwave you, and I wasn't pedantic.

I didn't know of your previous engagements with Zeggman. You're being intellectually dishonest and/or frankly obtuse if you claim you didn't get what I was saying. I was trying to support Zeggman's ability to discuss something without being attacked. Since it's moot to you, I'll leave it there.

Indeed, though my post wasn't about that.

I'm not a mind reader. I read what you wrote and responded to what I thought you meant. If I wasn't clear, I'm sorry. I'll honestly try harder next time.

 

[joesixpack]

Telling someone that they're deluded out of the blue like that without asking for context is easy when you're sitting behind a computer screen, is what I meant.

I would have said it to your face as well since I don't consider those to be "fighting words". Are you in the habit of physically assaulting people who point out that you have deluded yourself? People have told me I was deluded and I felt no desire to punch them. I had assumed this was the case for most people outside of super-max facilities. And I'll also add that it wasn't "out of the blue"nor was it without context, it was specifically in reference to your total misrepresentation or misreading of zegg's position.

Regardless of your tendency towards violent reaction to those who disagree with you, do you understand now that zegg is not telling you whether or not it is permitted to feel emotion in re school shootings?

 

[DC]

I really wonder what is wrong with the USA. something is definitely wrong there. but i have no clue what it is.

 

[joesixpack]

I really wonder what is wrong with the USA. something is definitely wrong there. but i have no clue what it is.

You got a couple of hours? There are about a million things wrong with the US. We have one foot in the third world and the other on a banana peel.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I really wonder what is wrong with the USA. something is definitely wrong there. but i have no clue what it is.

Perhaps the gunpowder is laced with heroine.

 

[zeggman]

Very well then. I'll retract that and I apologise.

Thank you. I appreciate your integrity.

 

[DC]

You got a couple of hours? There are about a million things wrong with the US. We have one foot in the third world and the other on a banana peel.

in every counrty there are millions of things that are wrong. But alot of countries have it much worse and don't seem to have this kind of violence problem.
i mean compared to many other countries the US is a top place to live. even if you are not among the rich.

 

[lionking]

The difference between a drowning death and a gun-related death is that in the drowning example, there are things you personally can do to prevent it. No one is chasing down children with a swimming pool.

With guns, there is nothing you personally can do if someone goes all whacky and decides to take a bunch of people out other than support laws that have the potential to remove that threat.

Exactly. I've been tell family and friends that people are comparing the Newtown murders with swimming pool drownings. It's been good for alot of laughs.

 

[joesixpack]

in every counrty there are millions of things that are wrong. But alot of countries have it much worse and don't seem to have this kind of violence problem.
i mean compared to many other countries the US is a top place to live. even if you are not among the rich.

In many of the countries that "have it much worse" they actually have far more violence. But not to worry, we're catching up with the bottom of the barrel in all measures; lack of access to health care, income disparity, and lack of access to education. Look out Swaziland!

 

[triforcharity]

That depends. Bag snatching would be considered "robbery" in both the US and UK (and therefore a violent crime) if there was a real or perceived threat or actual use of force. Bag snatching would generally fall under robbery because usually the victim is holding the bag at the time, and thus the criminal has to physically remove it from their possession, or force the victim to surrender it through threat or intimidation. However if, say, the victim was merely sitting with the bag on their lap and the criminal seized it as they ran past, that probably wouldn't be considered robbery.

In Florida for instance, we have a crime called "robbery by sudden snatching" which is what this type of scenario would fall under.

It's still a very serious crime, and a 3rd deg. felony, a second if their was a weapon in the possession of the criminal.

 

[triforcharity]

A query of the CDC Wonder database shows that 4,818 children ages 0 to 14 died as a result of firearms from 1999 to 2010. Swimming pool deaths for this same period and age groups totaled 3,885.

This isn't to say that swimming pools do not pose a risk to children. It just isn't the topic of this thread.

So, because it's not the topic, we cannot use a comparison?

 

[triforcharity]

Exactly. I've been tell family and friends that people are comparing the Newtown murders with swimming pool drownings. It's been good for alot of laughs.

No, not at all. That's a damn lie, and you ******* know it. You've twisted just about every single point that I and others have made.

The irony that I explained with the who calling the police discussion. You and some other poster went completely off the deep end, drilled through the ground, and came out the other side....

I personally compared the amount of deaths of children in the USA by guns, to the amount of accidental drownings of kids.

 

[LashL]

I really wonder what is wrong with the USA. something is definitely wrong there. but i have no clue what it is.

USAians are a good bunch for the most part but, for some unknown reason, when it comes to guns, some of them just lose all perspective, it seems. Of course, some just like to build false personas as Internet Tough Guys as in, "Oh, look at me! I have badass guns and you will take them from me when you pry them from my cold, dead hands! 2nd Amendment! My forefathers! Look at me talking tough on the Internet! You hate us for our freedom! I'm so tough with my badass guns! Watch me Google up stuff that I actually know nothing about but I can fool some of the people some of the time so I'll do it anyway! USA! USA! USA! Forefathers! Freedom! I have the right to defend myself with superior firepower at the grocery store! Or at a stop light! Blah blah blah" nonsense.

I have no time for Internet Tough Guys and no time for people who try to manufacture false personas online. They are useless, senseless, liars who do not deserve the time of day.

So leaving those aside, the USAian pro-gun folks who are genuine in their beliefs are the ones that I would like to try to understand. I would really like to be able to understand why they want to continue the proliferation of guns in their country when it seems obvious to most people looking in that it is a real and serious problem.

It seems that many USAians are so terrified of their fellow USAians with guns that they've talked themselves into arming themselves to address their fear of their fellow countrymen and women, and that they have lost the ability or the will to try to actually deal with the gun proliferation problem that they have created and compounded over the years. Thus creating a self-fulfilling death spiral, so to speak.

But as an eternal optimist, I do hope that the smarter (and less fearful and less paranoid) USAians will prevail and begin to brainstorm ways to reduce the gun proliferation in the USA, because I think that really needs to happen if they ever want to see a reduction in gun crimes and gun deaths in their country. It's not a matter of "freedom"; it's a matter of a whole lot of USAians dying every year because a whole lot of other USAians are scared and paranoid and arming themselves needlessly, thus making guns so prolific and readily available that what might have otherwise been a mere argument turns into a murder, etc.

I really like my neighbours to the south for the most part, and I have many, many USAian friends, but I abhor that so many USAians embrace a gun culture that will always do more harm than good in modern society.

 

[Belz...]

Yeah, I do know what handwaving and pedantry are. Starting a reply to anyone with an admonishment about spelling is pedantry. I know how to spell. You know I know how to spell. If I make a mistake spelling something, it's not from lack of spelling knowledge. It's a mistake.

Which I was correcting. I don't see what the problem is.

You're being intellectually dishonest and/or frankly obtuse if you claim you didn't get what I was saying.

Wow. So there is no way I could not understand what you were saying. That's very interesting. I'm done with you.

 

[Belz...]

I would have said it to your face as well since I don't consider those to be "fighting words". Are you in the habit of physically assaulting people who point out that you have deluded yourself?

What in the blue hell is wrong with you guys ? When did I say anything about physical assault ? These posts are getting seriously ridiculous. The habit people have here of adding content to other people's posts is getting in the insane territory.

 

[JihadJane]