Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[shuttlt]

Surely the only way to progress this is to find out why it is that Clayton believes vaccines cause autism? The arguments in favor of a link appear to me to be justifications after the fact using any anecdotes and quotes that can be found. I take it this isn't Clayton's only fringe belief?

 

[dafydd]

Surely the only way to progress this is to find out why it is that Clayton believes vaccines cause autism? The arguments in favor of a link appear to me to be justifications after the fact using any anecdotes and quotes that can be found. I take it this isn't Clayton's only fringe belief?

Correct. Holocaust denial too.

 

[shuttlt]

That's atypical. Normally anti-vaxers are coiming from a more new-age/homeopathy/electric fields kind of place. Holocaust denial is a new one on me. Presumably the link is the victim/conspiracy angle.

If you ask me, which you haven't, lots of the fringe posters enjoy dramatizing their lives with some narrative involving secret knowledge, magic, and conspiracies etc. Does Clayton actually want to be convinced by something less exciting?

 

[dafydd]

That's atypical. Normally anti-vaxers are coiming from a more new-age/homeopathy/electric fields kind of place. Holocaust denial is a new one on me. Presumably the link is the victim/conspiracy angle.

If you ask me, which you haven't, lots of the fringe posters enjoy dramatizing their lives with some narrative involving secret knowledge, magic, and conspiracies etc. Does Clayton actually want to be convinced by something less exciting?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233904&page=141

 

[CORed]

Correct. Holocaust denial too.

Also 9/11 truther.

 

[shuttlt]

Thanks for the link. He clearly has no great interest in the correctness of any of the facts or logic in either thread. Either a troll or something very like one. I'm impressed by the number of threads he's started.

 

[Estellea]

Thanks for the stupid, not, link.

Perhaps then her admission that her unvaccinated daughter has autism but blames her own childhood vaccines and even more stupidly claims vitamin K contributed escaped you? Or is this again a situation of hearing something you find inconvenient? I also see you haven't responded to the many publications that have been presented to you. Why is that Clay? Is the non-YooToob format throwing you for a loop?
For starters, no MMR in Japan, no monovalent measles, mumps and rubella for three years but an entire city's children was audited and autism prevalence still rose. Could you please offer an explanation for that? Could you please tell me what heavy metals are in MMR? Thanks.

Este

 

[Clayton Moore]

Why?

Reading helps you learn.

 

[LSSBB]

Reading helps you learn.

Then get on it. Times a wastin'.

 

[Giordano]

Reading helps you learn.

Good point! So, did you get a chance to read that Wikipedia article on the immune system that I recommended to you many months ago? It's very informative and would help you understand how the anti-vax sites are making stuff up, distorting information, and are lying to you. The immune system is also absolutely amazing; I think you will find the article very interesting!

 

[Chris Haynes]

Reading helps you learn.

Excellent! Then you would have no problem answering my questions (which I believe I asked you before). So read the paper Clinical Significance of Measles and then post an equivalent review from PubMed that shows the MMR vaccine is more dangerous than measles.

And then when you are done with that, you can read this table on thimerosal amounts in vaccines in the American pediatric schedule. Then tell us which on that this are only available with thimerosal. That means that none of the vaccines that have the word "free" in the thimerosal column.

Note that several of the influenza vaccines do not have thimerosal, so it is not influenza vaccine.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Think of it this way


http://voices.yahoo.com/dpt-vaccine-ingredients-1811781.html?cat=71

Your body has a pretty effective defense system to deal with ingested or inhaled toxic materials. But you as an adult wouldn't make a habit if ingesting or inhaling even minute amounts of

diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular pertussis adsorbed, the chemicals in the list of DPT vaccine ingredients includes formaldehyde, aluminum phosphate, ammonium sulfate, and thimerosal, and animal by products of washed sheep RBCs.

Yet you would encourage that this type of toxin collection be injected into an infants body? Possibly 8 times in one session?

http://www.healthoma.com/what-is-tetanus-and-why-is-it-dangerous/

Now for a short common sense quiz.

If you or your baby/child ingested some dirt do you think a tetanus shot was necessary?

 

[Mister Earl]

I note you revert to argument from incredulity and decided to dodge the plethora of questions that you are incapable of answering.

I honestly feel bad that people out there still side with Wakefield's craziness, despite his being revealed as a scammer, liar, and fraud, who threw the health and welfare of children under the bus just so he could pad his wallet some more.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I note you revert to argument from incredulity and decided to dodge the plethora of questions that you are incapable of answering.

I honestly feel bad that people out there still side with Wakefield's craziness, despite his being revealed as a scammer, liar, and fraud, who threw the health and welfare of children under the bus just so he could pad his wallet some more.

I note, by your lack of response, that you feel that inhaling and ingesting germs is just as dangerous as receiving them through a puncture of the skin.

The plethora of questions I've received are nothing more than an attempt to confuse the issue.

Are you a doctor? is a favorite

 

[Dcdrac]

I note CM you still know nothing about medicine nor Biology

 

[shuttlt]

Clayton, does anything link all these various things that you feel mainstream opinion is wrong about - MMR, 9/11, the holocaust? Is it just a random collection of ideas, or is there a common thread?

 

[Capsid]

If you or your baby/child ingested some dirt do you think a tetanus shot was necessary?

Tetanus is an anaerobic bacterium. It wouldn't survive in the gut but does in a deep puncture wound.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I note CM you still know nothing about medicine nor Biology

I doubt if you know much about either either.

Why are germs more dangerous through the skin?

All my life I've been told a puncture wound is much more dangerous than the average cut.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Tetanus is an anaerobic bacterium. It wouldn't survive in the gut but does in a deep puncture wound.

Bingo.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Clayton, does anything link all these various things that you feel mainstream opinion is wrong about - MMR, 9/11, the holocaust? Is it just a random collection of ideas, or is there a common thread?

All three concern in your face bald face lies.