Dr Phil promotes "Satanic Ritual Abuse" conspiracy theory

[Altus]

Tylas's review is no longer on Amazon. I'd love to know whether she pulled it herself to "erase" all the critical comments or if Amazon removed it.

Gee, we'll never know now, will we? However it interesting that she removed it shortly after I posted this, now, isn't it? *waves to Tylas' friend, Felicity*

Tylas has a reputation to protect elsewhere on the Internet. She wants to be taken seriously as someone who can discuss "scholarly" articles. If so, she must step up to the plate or her legacy on Amazon will be as one who mistakes opinion, pseudo-scientific cure peddlers, and biased theorists as research. As such, she should not be allowed to edit Wikipedia articles. Ellen Lacter, an SRA expert, has had her own issues with Wikipedia and has documented it. http://www.bishop-accountability.org..._RitualSex.htm

 

[Dismember]

Altus, do you know what Felicity Lee is on about? Is there something I missed or is this just more random finger-pointing on her part? (ETA, glancing over it again this looks less like "finger-pointing" and more like an emotional meltdown.)

From what I gather, she thinks you and Karmakaze are both writers, or possibly that you're both the same person and also a writer. The writer in question, or one of the writers in question, is apparently August Piper. This August Piper may or may not be connected, in Felicity's mind, to the Amazon poster named August Pamplona.

to Karmakaze Dec 19, 2012 12:12:44 PM PST

Just like August - oh could that be 'your' little August P that you keep raving about - embarrassed to come forward in 'reality' [ ....... ] Came out the same time as the trivial book "Hoax and reality: the bizarre world of multiple personality disorder" by none other than your hero August P. [......] "Memory, particular traumatic memories, are generally correct," Felicity Lee - oh, looky there - I can quote my own material - and, I have the qualifications to back, not only it up, but everything I write - 'can't touch it'

I guess not you - the famous Karmakaze ghost writer and infamous tale teller is now also God [.....] I am not impressed - anyone else impressed with this ghost writer name Karmakaze

to CritThink: Dec 19, 2012 12:39:39 PM PST

We don't have to ask who 'you' are 'really' - do we? It was already revealed here - but, ohhhhhhh - cry us a river - 'someone' ran to Amazon to have that post removed real quick before 'everyone' knew the truth - but, worry not - the word is spreading - tisk tisk - it would truly ruin your rep if 'everyone' knew who you were ........ you and your need to deflect from the discussion at hand. Who is Karmakazi? ....... Write another book - oh the last one didn't fly too far - did it?

to CritThink Dec 19, 2012 1:27:23 PM PST

And, let me ask - who are you - oh, yeah - can't say who you really are, because Amazon will remove it again. You have a big-time stake in what is said here - don't you - financial as well as just staying in the groove.

Dec 19, 2012 2:19:15 PM PST

CT - should we spread the gossip of who you really are? That is some really good gossip - but, never takes - every time someone announces your identity, Amazon takes it down - but, you never were really admired by many - how are the book sales going?

Ok Altus, who are you really?

Dec 19, 2012 2:21:09 PM PST

CT - wow, you are so brave - and, you don't have a clue - just keep trying to use that little brain of yours' - I feel so smart in comparison - cuz, like I have a little secret that you don't know and I do - "in your Barbie world". ROFL

Dec 19, 2012 3:08:45 PM PST

CT - how are the book sales going -

to Karmakaze Dec 19, 2012 5:11:55 PM PST

sing along with me now - "I'm a Barbie Girl in My Barbie world - wrapped in plastic - it's fantastic" You spent a lot of time singing that to yourself - didn't you - don't be shy now - or I will have to out you.

http://www.amazon.com/review/R32CCE...ad=Tx2YR8Q2I1QROMR&store=books#wasThisHelpful

 

[Altus]

Altus, do you know what Felicity Lee is on about? Is there something I missed or is this just more random finger-pointing on her part? (ETA, glancing over it again this looks less like "finger-pointing" and more like an emotional meltdown.)

From what I gather, she thinks you and Karmakaze are both writers, or possibly that you're both the same person and also a writer. The writer in question, or one of the writers in question, is apparently August Piper. This August Piper may or may not be connected, in Felicity's mind, to the Amazon poster named August Pamplona.
[/url]

August Piper is a MD who does not support DID/MPD and is a target of folks like Felicity who runs a site supporting it. http://augustpipermd.com/

Felicity is trying to figure out who I am. She knows who Doug is. I have posted things about Tylas and Judy that I know which might cause a curiosity as to how I know these things.

She's not having melt-down, she is really just screwing around. It's a game with her as weird as it may seem on the surface. She's going to read this eventually. Hi, Felicity

This one is a different matter. Orphia, conspiracy...incoming.

In reply to your post on Dec 19, 2012 7:43:54 PM PST
Mikayla says:
In this comment thread we address yet again the need for proof before someone should have the right to present their biography. Jenny has the right to have her biography presented. No one has been falsely accused. We have again the Iatrogenic DID argument suggesting DID can be induced by therapists by suggesting to their patients they have it. DID is a trauma based disorder. If it is iatrogenic DID then the therapist was also a sadistic nightmare using torture... There are evil people who also happen to hold positions of trust. That is not what 22 Faces is about, wrong book. We have, yet again, the false claim that Judy Byington lied about being helpful to the Attorney General's Office. The email claimed to have been received by the AG stated that the AG office said they had never investigated ritual abuse. All it would take is a simple web search to find that the Utah Attorney General's Office has indeed done investigations into ritual abuse and it should become clear that those claiming to have received an email to the contrary will no doubt be facing a libel suit very soon.

I am reluctant to engage too much with M because this person has a very distorted view of reality and yet is intelligent. A bad mix. Anything one says can be sucked into and used to feed the delusion.

Felicity, Judy and Tylas are not at this level.

 

[Roma]

She's not having melt-down, she is really just screwing around. It's a game with her as weird as it may seem on the surface. She's going to read this eventually)

.

Well if she is going to read this then I would like to let her know that despite the extremely annoying and sometimes worse things she has posted on the comment sections she is only showing us something that is really pathetic.

Many times I have heard people wonder what would have happened to one of those DID patients if they had only recieved proper therapy for their mental illness.

I wonder what this woman (I'm just guessing) would be like if she had recieved some type of appropriate cognitive behaviour therapy and obviously the required medications for her mental illness.

The future looks pretty bleak for her if she doesn't get the help she needs, such a pity.

 

[Altus]

Well if she is going to read this then I would like to let her know that despite the extremely annoying and sometimes worse things she has posted on the comment sections she is only showing us something that is really pathetic.

Many times I have heard people wonder what would have happened to one of those DID patients if they had only recieved proper therapy for their mental illness.

I wonder what this woman (I'm just guessing) would be like if she had recieved some type of appropriate cognitive behaviour therapy and obviously the required medications for her mental illness.

The future looks pretty bleak for her if she doesn't get the help she needs, such a pity.

Be sure, she pretty much monitors the room. Tylas changed her name and took down her review yesterday after I called her out in here. Judy has referred to my avatar, so smile, we're on JREF camera.

In reply to your post on Dec 19, 2012 8:43:34 PM PST
Last edited by the author 10 minutes ago
Felicity Lee says:
I voted for you - because I like being called a little flower - and, yes - I am an All Star - remember that song - love it - it will make you feel better about yourself also. by Smash Mouth - from the 90's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_jWHffIx5E

I am feeling pretty sad after Dough (Your hero) wrote to me, "you are a liar. You are a disgusting failed specimen of humanity" - just because I didn't agree with him. He is not a nice man - and I didn't deserve that. I would never call anyone a 'disgusting failed specimen of humanity'. That is serious - and, I am just playing around - I am deeply hurtBut, that song picked me right up.

Don't take the Doug stuff at face value...she's said much worse to him. She just like to spin her posts. She runs a site for DID folks. I'm not sure she is DID (or I should say has been diagnosed with it.) She's a bit too savvy for me to think she's DID. She does ask for donations and sell flip flops to DID folk. There's a lot of money to be made off of catering to the delusion.

 

[Roma]

Don't take the Doug stuff at face value...she's said much worse to him. She just like to spin her posts. She runs a site for DID folks. I'm not sure she is DID (or I should say has been diagnosed with it.) She's a bit too savvy for me to think she's DID. She does ask for donations and sell flip flops to DID folk. There's a lot of money to be made off of catering to the delusion.

Oh yes I remember now ! This person may not actually be in DID therapy herself, she may very likely just be a parasite off their backs.

In which case my sympathy towards her has diminished

 

[Roma]

Hey there folks. Just curious if anyone's heard from Doug? Wondering if Jenny hills son ever got in touch with him

I saw Doug today on the False Memory Activist Network Facebook site.

Edited by LashL: 

As requested.

 

[Dismember]

I am reluctant to engage too much with M because this person has a very distorted view of reality and yet is intelligent. A bad mix.

Reading through her(?) recent comments (including the one you posted here), she also shares their penchant for brazen dishonesty, but she takes it to a whole new level. Is it possible she's just trolling?

I'm starting to think Judy Byington / Twenty-Two Faces has some element that attracts the pathological liars of the SRA/DID community.

 

[Orphia Nay]

August Piper is a MD who does not support DID/MPD and is a target of folks like Felicity who runs a site supporting it. http://augustpipermd.com/

Felicity is trying to figure out who I am. She knows who Doug is. I have posted things about Tylas and Judy that I know which might cause a curiosity as to how I know these things.

She's not having melt-down, she is really just screwing around. It's a game with her as weird as it may seem on the surface. She's going to read this eventually. Hi, Felicity

This one is a different matter. Orphia, conspiracy...incoming.

In reply to your post on Dec 19, 2012 7:43:54 PM PST
Mikayla says:
In this comment thread we address yet again the need for proof before someone should have the right to present their biography. Jenny has the right to have her biography presented. No one has been falsely accused. We have again the Iatrogenic DID argument suggesting DID can be induced by therapists by suggesting to their patients they have it. DID is a trauma based disorder. If it is iatrogenic DID then the therapist was also a sadistic nightmare using torture... There are evil people who also happen to hold positions of trust. That is not what 22 Faces is about, wrong book. We have, yet again, the false claim that Judy Byington lied about being helpful to the Attorney General's Office. The email claimed to have been received by the AG stated that the AG office said they had never investigated ritual abuse. All it would take is a simple web search to find that the Utah Attorney General's Office has indeed done investigations into ritual abuse and it should become clear that those claiming to have received an email to the contrary will no doubt be facing a libel suit very soon.

I am reluctant to engage too much with M because this person has a very distorted view of reality and yet is intelligent. A bad mix. Anything one says can be sucked into and used to feed the delusion.

Felicity, Judy and Tylas are not at this level.

Just another delusional nut.

The emails didn't claim that at all.

We all know the Utah AG investigated satanic ritual abuse in the nineties, as stated in the ABC video.

Plus, even if the Utah AG had denied that, repeating their claims wouldn't make one guilty of libel.

Typically sad behaviour from a person fraught with conspiracies and falsehoods.

 

[Strawberry]

Notice the way Judy Byington's claim has been watered down too - she's gone from being a consultant to the AG's office since 2006 to having contacts with people who worked there in the 90s, to "being helpful" to them.

Sad, delusional BS.

 

[Altus]

Reading through her(?) recent comments (including the one you posted here), she also shares their penchant for brazen dishonesty, but she takes it to a whole new level. Is it possible she's just trolling?

I'm starting to think Judy Byington / Twenty-Two Faces has some element that attracts the pathological liars of the SRA/DID community.

No, it's not trolling. Trolling requires an awareness and deliberate attempt (Felicity). M appears to have little grasp of reality. That's what concerns me about any interaction with M. Judy I have no problem going after, and will, every chance I get. She's a Typhoid Mary of delusion and, as such, has to be stopped. Same thing with Tylas and Felicity. They are elsewhere on the Internet (although "Felicity" is a moniker for a DID site and Tylas is a real person with a real reputation to protect---she likes to be thought of as intelligent---might explain the pull of her review when I peppered her review thread with the fact that she was endorsing a work of pure BS. She actually said Byington had done "research")

This diagnosis often drives women (they are almost always women) into a state of perpetual fear. If they are not actively trying to advance the meme and argue, I don't really want to go after them. But I have to draw a line. Skylover fears Halloween and Masons. The reality is people like Sky have been rewarded in their status by playing that fear to their advantage---you are mean if you state fact; you are hurting me, etc. I was not about to let Sky tell me I couldn't post a link to the Stonecutters video or say "Boo". She's become an unwitting pawn in a therapy game that does not let one address the very fears and delusions that perpetuate it.

I feel bad for the victims of this therapy. It's terrible to live in fear. At the same time, I have to balance that off with addressing the factors that perpetuate the meme, if the meme is going to be stopped. Because it has not been, women continue to be sucked into it and driven to near suicide via private practice therapists as well as at institutions like Castlewood http://www.kmov.com/news/editors-pick/Castelwood-Treatment-Center-Lawsuits-178973201.html

Judy, Tylas, and Felicity have a enough of a status in the real world to want to adjust their behaviors and narratives a bit. M has shown no indication of that. M concerns me. The extent of the delusion and capacity to invent new intricate conspiracies out of thin air (most DIDs can only repeat what they have been taught) is startling. I'd call M an outlier (no pun intended) on the DID delusional scale. There is simply no point in discussing anything with him/her...something else might well be going on there and I don't see any benefit in messing with that.

The other three musketeers, I'll out until the cows come home...and then some.

 

[Dismember]

No, it's not trolling. Trolling requires an awareness and deliberate attempt (Felicity).

Well, I shouldn't have said "just" trolling, because she clearly believes in the SRA conspiracy, but in one of her early comments in her review thread (I'll see if I can find it) she said "thanks for taking the bait" or something along those lines. Believer or not, looking for public "validation" or not, she seems to be trolling, too.

ETA - here's her quote: "I would like to thank ac2012, Karmakaze, and Eric for responding to my lure. You have all made my point beautifully. ..."

http://www.amazon.com/review/R3FASO...ad=Tx2N6ESNQQTNWH0&store=books#wasThisHelpful

M appears to have little grasp of reality.

That's putting it mildly, as you'll see with a quick browse through her blog Here's an interesting quote from the "About Me" (she uses the same cover photo here and at Amazon):

... Over ten years after receiving ritual abuse training for a crisis center she recognized the red flags in her own family. ...

Her situation is interesting in that she apparently wasn't a victim of drug-induced coercive therapy. And, surprise surprise, she's also selling her own book. Seems like a lot of the SRA supporters on Amazon have some financial stake in this.

Edit - I can't seem to find her book anywhere, so maybe it hasn't been published yet.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Shameless bump just because I think my 26,666^th post should go here.



ETA:

 

[Altus]

Shameless bump just because I think my 26,666^th post should go here.



ETA:
[qimg]http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w194/orphia/26666_zps7650d4d7.jpg[/qimg]

That's one 6 over the line, my dear (or before the comma, anyway). I heart it!

Too bad it was not yesterday...close enough!

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

I have a false memory. I remember unpacking a baretta .25 mm pistol from my suitcase and shooting through a box with it in my bedroom. The reason I know its false is that I never bought a pistol of any kind. And I know I have never owned one. Still the memory is there.

 

[douglas mesner]

Sorry I've been remiss on this JREF thread. I've been working on a million things of late. It's really amazing to me to see the trajectory of this whole 22 Faces thing. In fact, I think 22 Faces is one of the best things that's happened to the debate about the irresponsible field of dissociative studies and the pseudoscience promoted by the ISSTD. 22 Faces is so blatantly absurd and irrational, and it is simply remarkable to see people attaching their endorsement to it, forever (I hope) damaging whatever credibility they may have had. Characters like Tylas and Lynn Crook have tried so hard in the past to pretend to hold a scientific, evidence-based opinion on the topic, and here they are (or were) endorsing a book that isn't even internally consistent, and contains the most unhinged and plainly delusional of episodes, and all told by a woman who was outed as lying about being a consultant for the Utah Attorney General's office.
I still haven't received definite word that the Dr. Phil episode will not air, but they have definitely held off on it from their original planned air date for reasons undisclosed.
The issue of Skeptical Inquirer containing my review of 22 Faces should be on the shelves this week. I wrote the review before having engaged in online forum debates with the delirious Mrs. Byington. I point this out because I find one paragraph from the review amusingly prophetic:

"Judy Byington, former therapist and author of Twenty-Two Faces, the supposedly true story of an MPD-diagnosed survivor of satanic cult abuse, preemptively strikes at skeptics in her epilogue. “Some contend that Satanic Ritual Abuse [SRA], dissociation [MPD] and repressed memories are false, or don’t exist,” she writes. However, having “interviewed hundreds of SRA survivors, therapists and police investigators,” as well as having reviewed “dozens of successfully litigated cases that have satanic overtones”, Byington warns that she “would seriously question why one would defend such a stance.” (Byington 417) To be sure, this is where the battle lines are drawn. To express doubts regarding Byington’s claims of a satanic cult conspiracy will doubtlessly be interpreted -- for her convenience -- as an assault not only upon dissociation and repressed memories, but as a heartless assault upon victims of child abuse in general. After all, if traumas may be repressed, and recovered memories are true, then recovery of any narrative, no matter how bizarre, is evidence of its own veracity."

 

[Orphia Nay]

"[...]After all, if traumas may be repressed, and recovered memories are true, then recovery of any narrative, no matter how bizarre, is evidence of its own veracity."

Begging two questions (assuming traumas can be repressed, and that recovered memories are true) and Circular Reasoning in one sentence...

Logical Fallacies for the FAIL!

Hi Altus!

 

[douglas mesner]

Wow! I'm looking back at what I've missed and I see Dismember posted statements I hadn't seen written by Judy claiming that I had been warned about confidentiality by the Utah Attorney General's office. She's simply making things up again. I received no warnings whatsoever, nor have I stopped mentioning the Utah AG emails at all. But, if you think for just a moment, this doesn't even make sense. On the one hand, Judy claims that we've never had contact with Barlow or the Utah AG's office. On the other hand, she claims it doesn't matter because SHE has never had contact with him, so he wouldn't know the score anyway. However, if Orphia had never even contacted the Utah AG office, why would the Utah AG warn her or me about posting confidential emails from their office? Which way is Judy going here? Did we lie about the Utah AG emails, or is our posting them a breach of confidentiality?
I really have to wonder where she gets her strange ideas. Is it poor reading comprehension that led her to misinterpret Orphia's statement about confidentiality in her Dysgenics post, or does she simply make things up on-the-fly? It's really no wonder the real world is such a strange, foreboding, and incomprehensible place to such a simple mind.

You ever get a reply from the AG yourself, Dismember?

 

[Orphia Nay]

Judy Byington was hosting a pay-to-attend webinar on November 17. Not sure if the DOPL knew about this one.

http://childabusedata.blogspot.com.au/2012/10/survivorship-webinar-trauma-treatment.html

Anyone with any news on the DOPL complaint?

 

[Checkmite]

I also want to say that I am still following this discussion eagerly and am vicariously proud of you guys' accomplishments on this matter. For all its simplicity, directly contacting the Utah AG's office was a gutsy and wonderfully constructive move. I am similarly glad that you all are continuing to actively engage these individuals and not merely let the issue fade away - which would only work to their advantage. I truly hope the onlookers at these sites are noticing whose comments are constantly being erased, altered, or withdrawn and whose aren't.

Aside from my own perspective regarding the thought processes inside abuse survivor groups which lead to views like Byington's gaining traction and status (which I gave earlier in this thread) I don't really have anything additional to offer except for moral support. Keep fighting the good fight.