School shooting: but don't mention guns!

[StankApe]

I think a substantial amount of the above mentioned 270 million people would be in the market.

if history has taught us anything it's that prohibitions of wanted goods doesn't diminish demand very much, it just puts the supply in the hands of criminals.

This is all really a moot discussion as guns are not going to be banned in a country who's astounding majority (I had no idea it was 270 mill) are gun owners.

and as far as a 20 yr old buying a gun. That's kind of a naive statement. He could just ask around and somebody would know somebody. 20 yr olds probably know more about getting a gun from someone off the street than older people do.

 

[jimbob]

The UK had quite a high gun (and other weapon) ownership in parts of its history.

BTW I think the UK's knife laws are overly restrictive, but knives do have many legitimate uses and many things can be sharpened, so they can't work that well, and the potential for mayhem is limited to far fewer situations.

 

[jimbob]

Didn't someone earlier in the thread say that most of the black market guns in Mexico came from the USA in the first place?

Anyway, who do you see as the buyers of all these weapons, if guns were made illegal? Why would it be relevant to the current case? How would a 20 year old know where to buy a gun?

Yes I did. About 70% without finding my links again.

 

[Kestrel]

So where did you folks get the idea that each person owns exactly one firearm?

 

[Autolite]

A 'Wikipedia' search using "Adam Lanza" reveals further details.

Apparently the firearms used were legally registered to Nancy Lanza (the mother). I think it would be reasonable to claim that the shooter stole the guns considering that the mother seems to be the first victim.

Also, IAW Connecticut gun law, Adam Lanza was not old enough to be in legal possession of the Glock or Sig hand guns. This, coupled with the fact that the guns belonged to the mother, would seem to indicated that the shooter did not have legal possession of the firearms (something that I believe the NRA frowns upon IIRC).

Apparently, Adam Lanza attempted to legally purchase a firearm two days before the shooting but was unable to immediately acquire one due to the state waiting period law. Here it seems that the gun control law works as intended but was ultimately ineffective at deterring the shooter.

Considering the fact that the elementary school is a 'Gun Free' zone and that there are laws against murder it seems that adding more prohibitions, restrictions, laws and regulations might just only create more rules that those with criminal intent will choose to ignore...

 

[StankApe]

Yes I did. About 70% without finding my links again.

and it has no bearing on the hypothetical world where guns are banned in the USA. I suspect it wouldn't take very long for the cartels to start bringing guns in from south america (or even manufacturing them in mexico) to ship into the USA. Now guns are legal in the USA and readily involved in drug deals with the guns flowing INTO Mexico, but you put a huge country with a traditional gun culture without it's fix, and I suspect the artery would reverse it's flow rather quickly

 

[zooterkin]

I'm amazed that gun ownership in England and Wales is so high. I don't know anyone who owns a gun. It's not surprising that gun ownership isn't uniformly distributed I suppose.

Don't forget that that's guns per 100 people, not gun owners. Some, if not most, gun owners will have more than one gun.

 

[joesixpack]

To suggest that the NRA holds no responsibility for the lax gun laws is naive. I guess in your world, the guy who pays the assassin is innocent, only the assassin is guilty.

The NRA is a lobbying organization with over 4 million dues-paying members. Many more likely voters go to the polls with their legislative report in mind because they are ideologically aligned on gun issues. This is the reason that they have any influence, not because they are an evil organization that pulls the strings behind the scenes.

You may feel free to form an organization to lobby for stricter gun control and get dues-paying members to send lobbyists to Washington. It is your right. Or you may join one of the current gun control lobbies like The Brady Campaign (they have 28,000 members, according to wikipedia and they are the largest such organization, as far as I know). It seems clear based on sheer numbers that the pro-gun position is the more popular, currently. And that's where congress will cast her votes, for better or for worse.

 

[Nessie]

I'm amazed that gun ownership in England and Wales is so high. I don't know anyone who owns a gun. It's not surprising that gun ownership isn't uniformly distributed I suppose.

The guns are primarily in rural areas with farmers and hunters. They are primarily seen as working tools to go after vermin, with deer being stalked but that is as much to keep the numbers down and stop them from being vermin.

 

[Rat]

I think a substantial amount of the above mentioned 270 million people would be in the market.

Where is the 270 million from? That's got to be all US adults.

 

[Sabretooth]

Wrong. He would have found another way to kill everyone, according to many gun enthusiasts. 26 people would've been smothered with pillows rather than shot.

There's that condescending tone again. Could be why no one is taking you seriously.

Regardless, your point that he would "find another way" is a possibility. But I based my opinion on the available facts.

Now, could my opinion change? Sure.

Bottom line. Guns should be kept away from those who are mentally unstable. Psychological evaluations, initially and periodically, is not a bad idea. But additionally, we should consider more than just the owner, but also the mental stability of those who might have easy access to those firearms.

There are ways to prevent these horrific events without the "ban all guns" nonsense.

 

[zooterkin]

This is all really a moot discussion as guns are not going to be banned in a country who's astounding majority (I had no idea it was 270 mill) are gun owners.

It's ok, it isn't, it's 270 million civilian firearms, not firearms owners.

and as far as a 20 yr old buying a gun. That's kind of a naive statement. He could just ask around and somebody would know somebody. 20 yr olds probably know more about getting a gun from someone off the street than older people do.

Right, sure, I'm the one making the naive statement.

Look, I can see that you simply couldn't make guns illegal overnight, like was possible in the UK. But there doesn't seem to be any will whatsoever to explore if there's any way to move in that direction, which is what is baffling.

 

[zooterkin]

There are ways to prevent these horrific events without the "ban all guns" nonsense.

What are they, and when is someone going to try them?

 

[MikeG]

I'm amazed that gun ownership in England and Wales is so high. I don't know anyone who owns a gun. .........

Almost all of those will be shot-guns for clay pigeon shooting, and for shooting pheasants & rabbits.

Mike

 

[StankApe]

It's ok, it isn't, it's 270 million civilian firearms, not firearms owners.




Right, sure, I'm the one making the naive statement.

Look, I can see that you simply couldn't make guns illegal overnight, like was possible in the UK. But there doesn't seem to be any will whatsoever to explore if there's any way to move in that direction, which is what is baffling.

LOL, you have no idea what you are talking about obviously. When I was 20, i had a lot more connection to pot dealers than I do now (being that I don't smoke it anymore) I was asked on more than one occasion if I needed any guns. Maybe this particular kid doesn't know anyone, but I'm sure he could have made a phone call or two and acquired 2 pistols in short order.

 

[WildCat]

Wow, the news media's fact checking is more worthless than ever. Remind me next time I repeat any facts about one of these events for at least the first 24 hours.

So far from TPM the mom was not a teacher at the school. Reporters couldn't find anyone at the school district that knew her and she wasn't on the school employee list.

Earlier they said the dad was dead at the house, then it was the brother, then it was the mother. All the while the brother was listed as the shooter, later that was cleared up.

Now it's claimed that the mom had 5 guns and was a gun enthusiast that took her sons to the gun range on occasion. It could be total BS, who can tell?

How hard can it be for reporters to check out something like the mom working at the school or not?

And while the police said the victim at the house had her face shot off so wasn't identifiable at first, who the heck said it was a male?

The news business model is worthless.

Yeah, the reporting on this is unbelievably bad.

I also heard that the shooter had argued with 4 of the teachers the day before, and 3 of those were killed and the 4th wasn't at school that day.

So how was this guy getting in the elementary school with no connections to it whatsoever?

 

[Sabretooth]

What are they, and when is someone going to try them?

I mentioned one in the post you quoted.

Another would be to make the punishment of possessing an illegal firearm something ridiculous. Give someone 5 years for having an unregistered gun. Give them 15-20 if they possess it as part of a crime. Even more if they actually use it. etc.

I'll think of more later. I am on the way out the door.

 

[zooterkin]

LOL, you have no idea what you are talking about obviously. When I was 20, i had a lot more connection to pot dealers than I do now (being that I don't smoke it anymore) I was asked on more than one occasion if I needed any guns. Maybe this particular kid doesn't know anyone, but I'm sure he could have made a phone call or two and acquired 2 pistols in short order.

And you're typical of 20-year-olds in the USA?

 

[StankApe]

I would imagine I was fairly typical . I would suspect that even more 20 yr olds smoke pot now than did then. But that could just be bias on my my part.
Guns are a very common thing in our country , mostly rifles and such, but I can think off the top of my head of at least 20 immediate friends who own handguns , plus family.

If you want to get a gun, it's not difficult. (he got his hands on 3 from his mom, didn't even have to go the illegal route).

banning gun in the USA will not happen for the next 500 years or so. if ever. it's too much a part of our culture, it would be like banning cheese in France

 

[Autolite]

So how was this guy getting in the elementary school with no connections to it whatsoever?

I've read that the school had measures designed to prevent unauthorized entry but that Lanza "forced his way in".

I suppose like several of the state gun control laws that had been circumvented, rules are only effective when the individual chooses to comply...