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School shooting: but don't mention guns!

I just heard about this when my wife came home and told me.

If I was the parent of one of these kids killed... my heart goes out to them.

Is this an issue of guns laws or lack of healthcare for mental illness? Why are these sick people able to so readily get guns? The nutcase from Colorado had enough ammo to take over a small country and purchased it on the internet.

I've asked some gun advocates why they need a gun that can spray 50 bullets in a minute. What war are they gearing up for?

20 dead kids? What are we going to do about it?
 
When I heard about this shooting this afternoon I felt sick. I can't imagine how awful it must be for the families of the children killed, to lose their little one so senselessly, so close to Christmas, in a place that's supposed to be so safe. It baffles a normal decent human, to think that people exist who would be willing to carry out such unfathomable violence against innocent children.

On the gun debate, I don't really have anything to add. The subject makes me unbearably weary, like a dull ache right down to my bones. I won't try to tell Americans what rights they should or shouldn't have. This is your demon, and you'll have to face it however you see best. I just hope people of reason and clear head are able to one day find a sensible solution that sits well with your cultural values and the things that matter to you.

For my part, I feel safe living in a country with tight gun control laws and very little gun violence.
 
thaiboxerken said:
It would be nice to cut out the gun-show loopholes as well.
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There's really no such thing.

Anyone selling guns at a gun show with an FFL must do a background check on every purchaser.

Anyone acting like any sort of dealer, must have the FFL, and must do the background checks.

The only way, in some states, to avoid the background check is for two private citizens to make the transaction, and even then it can't break the laws about who may own/purchase a gun.

You cannot make a habit of selling guns without doing the background checks. It is against the law.

A private citizen, who occasionally sells one of his guns, can do so to another private citizen, without the background check, within his home state. Even then, he still is not allowed to sell to anyone who is not allowed to possess.
 
Sabretooth said:
I am pro-gun as well. However, actions such as this...where a man walks into a KIDS school and starts firing away...it isn't about the guns.

This guy wanted to go out in a demon-blaze and you'd be hard pressed to make me believe he wouldn't have found another weapon(s) to make sure it happened.
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And yet it would seem that horrors like these occur mostly in countries where access to guns is less restricted.
 
gumboot said:
When I heard about this shooting this afternoon I felt sick. I can't imagine how awful it must be for the families of the children killed, to lose their little one so senselessly, so close to Christmas, in a place that's supposed to be so safe. It baffles a normal decent human, to think that people exist who would be willing to carry out such unfathomable violence against innocent children.
Click to expand...

Would you feel better if it was hit-and-run?
 
thaiboxerken said:
It would be nice to cut out the gun-show loopholes as well.
Click to expand...

There is no gun show loophole. Private sales have existed for as long as there has been a USA. Licensed gun dealers are a relatively recent innovation, more so for background checks. Background checks on title i guns as provided by law were only intended to be done by dealers, private sales of these guns remains legal and unlicensed individuals are not allowed to use the NICS system.

Licensed dealers are required to obtain background checks when selling guns from their shop or a gun show and individuals are not allowed to no matter where they sell. There is obviously no loophole.

Ranb
 
Profanz said:
I just heard about this when my wife came home and told me.

If I was the parent of one of these kids killed... my heart goes out to them.

Is this an issue of guns laws or lack of healthcare for mental illness? Why are these sick people able to so readily get guns? The nutcase from Colorado had enough ammo to take over a small country and purchased it on the internet.

I've asked some gun advocates why they need a gun that can spray 50 bullets in a minute. What war are they gearing up for?

20 dead kids? What are we going to do about it?
Click to expand...

what can we do about it? the guilty party is dead.... there's nothing that can be done really.

Is this a common enough occurrence to consider armed officers on site at each school in the country?
 
erlando said:
You don't want to give up your constitutional right to own a gun? Fine. Then just make it HARD (and I mean really hard) to qualify for owning a gun. None of this 21 day waiting period ********. Obligatory hands-on training for every gun type owned. Obligatory re-qualification every 2 years.

And tax the hell out of the bullets.
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The story tonight is that he used his mother's gun, after he killed her with it. I'm not sure how a longer waiting period, training, or re-qualification would have done a damned thing to prevent what happened.
 
50 a minute isn't very high. But it's sad if you need to shoot that fast when hunting.

Oh, and there is a gun show loophole:
Under the terms of the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986, however, individuals "not engaged in the business" of dealing firearms, or who only make "occasional" sales within their state of residence, are under no requirement to conduct background checks on purchasers or maintain records of sale (although even private sellers are forbidden under federal law from selling firearms to persons they have reason to believe are felons or otherwise prohibited from purchasing firearms).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_shows_in_the_United_States
 
gumboot said:
When I heard about this shooting this afternoon I felt sick. I can't imagine how awful it must be for the families of the children killed, to lose their little one so senselessly, so close to Christmas, in a place that's supposed to be so safe. It baffles a normal decent human, to think that people exist who would be willing to carry out such unfathomable violence against innocent children.

On the gun debate, I don't really have anything to add. The subject makes me unbearably weary, like a dull ache right down to my bones. I won't try to tell Americans what rights they should or shouldn't have. This is your demon, and you'll have to face it however you see best. I just hope people of reason and clear head are able to one day find a sensible solution that sits well with your cultural values and the things that matter to you.

For my part, I feel safe living in a country with tight gun control laws and very little gun violence.
Click to expand...

Its time for America to face up to it. I'm a liberal but have always believed that Americans have a right to own a gun and defend their home if need be. However I don't own a gun and probably never will.

But these shootings are getting crazy. I am alarmed by how available the lax gun control in this country lets crazies commit this kind of crime. In my opinion the NRA is to blame.

I have a 9 year old son and could never imagine him being murdered in such a senseless way. What those poor parents are going through right now is inconceivable to me. But why does this happen?
 
zeggman said:
The story tonight is that he used his mother's gun, after he killed her with it. I'm not sure how a longer waiting period, training, or re-qualification would have done a damned thing to prevent what happened.
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Perhaps if his mother was trained on how to keep control of her gun and keep it secure.
 
lionking said:
The merchants were the prime law breakers here.
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Was Omar a resident of the state where the sale took place?

Federal law (FOPA 1986) requires an individual to follow and comply with the firearms laws of their state of residence when conducting any firearms transaction in another state.

Under federal law, individuals selling firearms from their personal collection that aren't actually engaged in the business of selling firearms are not required to perform (nor could they, legally) background checks, and is not required by law to check ID or make a record of the transaction.

In California, every transfer of a firearm must be performed through an FFL dealer, with a background check, A+ from Brady, lots of murders.
 
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