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School shooting: but don't mention guns!

That last three times this many elementary school children were murdered in the US was by plane, bomb, and bomb if I remember correctly.

I think I'm pretty much with Myriad on this. (To answer you question, it's because trains are for commie Europeans.) Not only are mental health options very limited in the US, they are stigmatized to a great degree. Both of these are even more true for males. Even talking about getting help means serious social repercussions. Hell, getting treated for depression when I was sixteen is one of the reasons I was rejected from military service.

But it's much easier to try to point blame on something solid, and something you can demonize because you don't need or want it. Sure, there are valid points to that too and worth discussion, but the other parts get so ignored simply because they're more difficult to point fingers at.
 
Alferd_Packer said:
Let's tax ammunition, $100 a round.
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Great idea. Armed robbers would be reluctant to fire their guns because it would reduce their income.
While store owners would use their guns because it would still be cheaper than allowing the robbery to suceed.
Win Win.
 
lionking said:
To hit someone over the head with?

I don't think I've ever seen a fire extinguisher referred to as a self defence tool.
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I don't think I've ever seen such a fine example of being deliberately obtuse in order to dodge a question.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
If you don't believe me, look at all the countries out there who are ruled by tyrannical governments or otherwise in chaos, and where everyone is armed. Funny how Baghdad is so dangerous when most everyone owns an AK-47 -- you'd think John Doe would simply go out there and pull a Rambo and restore order, no?
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I keep hearing claims like this, but it's not actually true. The number of civilian guns is just 34 per 100 people, significantly below the US's 88, behind the 46 for Switzerland, and barely ahead of France's 31. Your subjective impression simply does not conform to the facts.
 
From a 2000 report by Juristat: The Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics


In Canada, there were 542 homicides resulting in a national rate of 1.8 homicides per 100,000 population. By comparison, there were 15,517 homicides in the U.S., resulting in a rate of 5.5 homicides per 100,000 population; three times higher than Canada’s.

Similarly, the aggravated assault rate in the U.S. was more than double the Canadian rate. The U.S. also showed a higher rate of robbery (65% higher) than Canada. About 41% of robberies in the U.S. involved a firearm, compared to 16% in Canada.

One in three Canadian homicides involved the use of firearms, compared to two in three in the U.S. The availability of firearms may explain the difference in levels of homicide.
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Can someone from the pro-gun lobby please explain how freely available guns in the USA makes everyone there safer?
 
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smartcooky said:
From a 2000 report by Juristat: The Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics





Can someone from the pro-gun lobby please explain how freely available guns in the USA makes everyone there safer?
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Half of all homicides are gang related in the US if I remember correctly, apart from your straw man in the form of a question. (Jeopardy Straw Man? An ichie Trabeck?)

EDIT: No, half of all gun deaths in the US are suicides, not gang related. My mistake.
 
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thaiboxerken said:
I think the premise that self-defense can only be achieved with a gun is silly.
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I think the premise that one can only put a fire out with a fire extinguisher is silly, but I still own one.
 
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sir drinks-a-lot said:
Many people own fire extinguishers while not living in constant fear of fire.

Some do not own fire extinguishers and have their homes burn to the ground.
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Many people do not own fire extinguishers and do not live in constant fear of fire.

Many people who do not own fire extinguishers have their homes burn down.
 
tyr_13 said:
Half of all homicides are gang related in the US if I remember correctly, apart from your straw man in the form of a question. (Jeopardy Straw Man? An ichie Trabeck?)
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I knew someone would raise this. There are gangs in every nation. Less heavily armed than US gangs, I'm certain.
 
tyr_13 said:
Half of all homicides are gang related in the US if I remember correctly, apart from your straw man in the form of a question. (Jeopardy Straw Man? An ichie Trabeck?)

EDIT: No, half of all gun deaths in the US are suicides, not gang related. My mistake.
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" A crappy little country nobody cared about until they shot the LOTR "

DING!

"What is New Zealand?"

;)
 
thaiboxerken said:
I think the premise that self-defense can only be achieved with a gun is silly.
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Given that the Forscher steel in my kitchen would shame a medieval weaponsmaker ...

But the intent of all that steel is not weapon, unless you're a chicken, a duck, a turkey, a salmon, or a hunk of beef.
 
Biscuit said:
This is the dumbest thing any gun owner ever said. Of course guns kill people. That there are many ways of killing people does not negate the fact that guns are created for one purpose and one purpose only: TO KILL.

When us gun owner, yes I own guns, say this **** it absolves us of the responsibility of ownership of such a killing implement. We need to stop screaming about the right to own guns, cold dead hands, and spoons make people fat and start taking responsibility for our weapons and have an honest conversation about what guns are, what they do, and what it means to live in an armed society. Until we stop this "guns don't kill" ******** we will never have an honest discussion.

If matches and gasoline are such an awesome and effective weapon why don't people carry them around concealed under their coat to stop a mugger? If matches and gasoline are so effective why don't I keep them next to my bed in case of a break in? Knock it off.
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Thank you for a brave and realistic post. I live in the UK but I have worked in Texas and several of my friends are gun owners from the US. I can honestly understand why they protect this right as they do but on a day like today I can only ask who you really think your guns are protecting you from. The solution for the US will not be the same as ours as your starting point is very different but you need to decide how to proceed without the macho ******** and entrenched positions that are the default whenever this subject is raised. I hope people like you will step back and reassess so that the appropriate measures (whatever they prove to be) can be taken.
 
jj said:
Given that the Forscher steel in my kitchen would shame a medieval weaponsmaker ...

But the intent of all that steel is not weapon, unless you're a chicken, a duck, a turkey, a salmon, or a hunk of beef.
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There are plenty of weapons that are not firearms.
 
Redtail said:
I think the premise that one can only put a fire out with a fire extinguisher is silly, but I still own one.
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But you clearly don't need one. After all, you have fire departments to put out fires, don't you? ;)
 
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