Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[dafydd]

Ack, Clay has wandered off to pastures new, and will not be back until he thinks the heat has died down.

As usual.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I'll save Clayton the trouble of checking to see whether there was any thimerosal in MMR. I can't think of any other source of "heavy metals" that Clayton might be thinking of. Perhaps if there is something he has in mind he can let us know.

Table 3 here: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228 thimerosal content is listed as 0 for MMR

This WHO page explains why it would not be used for MMR: http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/committee/topics/thiomersal/questions/en/ "Many licensed vaccines do not contain thiomersal. Such vaccines include vaccines in single-dose presentation or vaccines for which thiomersal would interfere with vaccine efficacy such as live vaccines including MMR, oral and inactivated polio, yellow fever, and BCG vaccine."

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228
Thimerosal as a Preservative

Thimerosal, which is approximately 50% mercury by weight, has been one of the most widely used preservatives in vaccines. It is metabolized or degraded to ethylmercury and thiosalicylate. Ethylmercury is an organomercurial that should be distinguished from methylmercury, a related substance that has been the focus of considerable study (see "Guidelines on Exposure to Organomercurials" and "Thimerosal Toxicity", below).

I don't give a crap what any vaccine zombie thinks. Any medical community that uses or has used a 50% mercury by weight concoction that is/was
to be injected into any child's arm is nothing but brain dead insane.


It's mercury. Freaking freaking mercury. Now go get your anthrax shots.

 

[Clayton Moore]

There are times when you just have understand what is toxic. Mercury in any form is toxic.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I'll save Clayton the trouble of checking to see whether there was any thimerosal in MMR. I can't think of any other source of "heavy metals" that Clayton might be thinking of. Perhaps if there is something he has in mind he can let us know.

Table 3 here: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228 thimerosal content is listed as 0 for MMR

This WHO page explains why it would not be used for MMR: http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/committee/topics/thiomersal/questions/en/ "Many licensed vaccines do not contain thiomersal. Such vaccines include vaccines in single-dose presentation or vaccines for which thiomersal would interfere with vaccine efficacy such as live vaccines including MMR, oral and inactivated polio, yellow fever, and BCG vaccine."

Table of Contents

Preservatives in Vaccines

To begin, we need to answer two questions-what are preservatives and why are they used in vaccines. For our purposes, preservatives may be defined as compounds that kill or prevent the growth of microorganisms, particularly bacteria and fungi. They are used in vaccines to prevent microbial growth in the event that the vaccine is accidentally contaminated, as might occur with repeated puncture of multi-dose vials. In some cases, preservatives are added during manufacture to prevent microbial growth; with changes in manufacturing technology, however, the need to add preservatives during the manufacturing process has decreased markedly.

The United States Code of Federal Regulations (the CFR) requires, in general, the addition of a preservative to multi-dose vials of vaccines; indeed, worldwide, preservatives are routinely added to multi-dose vials of vaccine. Tragic consequences have followed the use of multi-dose vials that did not contain a preservative and have served as the impetus for this requirement. One particularly telling incident from Australia is described by Sir Graham S. Wilson in his classic book, The Hazards of Immunization

In January 1928, in the early stages of an immunization campaign against diphtheria, Dr. Ewing George Thomson, Medical Officer of Health of Bundaberg, began the injection of children with toxin-antitoxin mixture. The material was taken from an India-rubber-capped bottle containing 10 mL of TAM. On the 17th, 20th, 21, and 24th January, Dr. Thomson injected subcutaneously a total of 21 children without ill effect. On the 27th a further 21 children were injected.Of these children .eleven died on the 28th and one on the 29th. (Wilson 1967)

How do you think those children died? Infection? I freaking doubt it.

BTW I think

A milliliter is .03 fluid ounces.
10 milliliters is .3 fluid ounces

42 injections from 10 milliliters would be 0.0071428571428571428571428571428571 fluid ounces each.

 

[dafydd]

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228
Thimerosal as a Preservative


I don't give a crap what any vaccine zombie thinks. Any medical community that uses or has used a 50% mercury by weight concoction that is/was
to be injected into any child's arm is nothing but brain dead insane.


It's mercury. Freaking freaking mercury. Now go get your anthrax shots.

I do like these reasoned scientific arguments that you come up with. Still no link with autism.

 

[Tolls]

Any medical community that uses or has used a 50% mercury by weight concoction that is/was
to be injected into any child's arm is nothing but brain dead insane.

Chlorine is 60% by weight of salt...anyone adding salt to anything must, consequently, be brain dead insane.

How do you think those children died? Infection? I freaking doubt it.

They died because the vaccine had no preservative in it. The result was it got contaminated.

Dr Thomson did not realise this, and so used it past its "sell by date".

It's a pretty famous case...

 

[Estellea]

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228
Thimerosal as a Preservative


I don't give a crap what any vaccine zombie thinks. Any medical community that uses or has used a 50% mercury by weight concoction that is/was
to be injected into any child's arm is nothing but brain dead insane.


It's mercury. Freaking freaking mercury. Now go get your anthrax shots.

OK, but what do anthrax jabs have to do with mercury? And while we're at it, what heavy metals are in MMR and MMR-V as you claimed?

There are times when you just have understand what is toxic. Mercury in any form is toxic.

Let's see, what is toxic? By Clay-logic that would also be water, sodium chloride, calcium and vitamin d. We'd better not touch any of those right Clay?

Table of Contents

Preservatives in Vaccines

How do you think those children died? Infection? I freaking doubt it.

BTW I think

A milliliter is .03 fluid ounces.
10 milliliters is .3 fluid ounces

42 injections from 10 milliliters would be 0.0071428571428571428571428571428571 fluid ounces each.

Well Clay since you were so obviously involved with the investigation of these unfortunate deaths, perhaps you would like to share the medical reports. What point are you trying to make with your maths Clay?

Este

 

[abaddon]

There are times when you just have understand what is toxic. Mercury in any form is toxic.

Selenuim, Clayton.

Too much? you will die

Too little? then you will die.

But you cannot function without this toxin.

 

[Dcdrac]

Oxygen is a toxin try breathing without it

http://www.ccmtutorials.com/rs/oxygen/page16.htm

"Why is Oxygen considered toxic?

High inspired oxygen concentrations cause toxicity by causing formation of oxygen free radicals (which damage tissues), and by causing absorption atelectasis and V/Q mismatch.

The issue of oxygen toxicity has been topical for a generation, following the discovery that therapeutic oxygen causes blindness in premature babies (retrolental fibroplasias) with respiratory distress syndrome. In addition, it has been established that high inspired concentrations of oxygen may cause acute lung injury, probably due to oxygen free radical production – superoxide, hydroxyl, hydrogen peroxide and singlet O2 molecules. These agents damage biomolecules such as membrane lipids, enzymes and nucleic acids. The extent of injury appears to depend on 1. The FiO2, 2. The duration of exposure, 3. The barometric pressure under which exposure occurred. It appears that the critical FiO2 for toxicity is around 50% (1), above which lung recruitment maneuvers should be condidered (CPAP).

High concentrations of inspired oxygen may cause absorption atelectasis. In addition high FiO2 may cause increased peripheral vascular resistance in congestive heart failure leading to reduced cardiac output."

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228
Thimerosal as a Preservative


I don't give a crap what any vaccine zombie thinks. Any medical community that uses or has used a 50% mercury by weight concoction that is/was
to be injected into any child's arm is nothing but brain dead insane.


It's mercury. Freaking freaking mercury. Now go get your anthrax shots.

See, this is the type of anti-scientific nonsense that clearly shows you have NO idea about any form of chemistry.
While thimerosal might be 50% by weight mercury, its the amount of atoms you get inside you that counts, not a weight ratio.
Your scare site neither mentions that fact, nor the actual amounts of thiosermal used, nor have you adressed the fact that the vaccines you rail agaist do NOT contain thiosermal at all.
Mercury is also not toxic at any level, there is a maximum dosage which is quite well known and which would not be exceeded by the vaccines.
The incident where you claim that 12 of 21 children in 1928 is explicitly mentioned as something that could have been PREVENTED with thimoseral.

 

[Giordano]

Clayton,
Pretty amazing: three posts in a row, and each increasing wrong!
Some hints for future reference:

An angry rant against thiomersal is not an effective response to a post proving MMR vaccines do not have thiomersal.

An angry rant against the toxicity of other forms of mercury is not relevant to the toxicity of thiomersal.

An angry rant against a a tragic occurrence in 1928 that was due to a lack of preservative in a vaccine is not an effective argument against preservatives in vaccines.

A statement such as, "How do you think these children died? Infection? I freaking doubt it!" tends to undermine people's confidence in your medical opinions when, in fact, the children did die of infection. I guess whether you "freaking doubt" something or not is a poor way to determine the truth and to make medical decisions.

Hope that helps.

 

[pakeha]

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228
Thimerosal as a Preservative


I don't give a crap what any vaccine zombie thinks. Any medical community that uses or has used a 50% mercury by weight concoction that is/was
to be injected into any child's arm is nothing but brain dead insane.


It's mercury. Freaking freaking mercury. Now go get your anthrax shots.

Hi, CM.
What does this have to do autism?

...
How do you think those children died? Infection? I freaking doubt it...

...They died because the vaccine had no preservative in it. The result was it got contaminated.

Dr Thomson did not realise this, and so used it past its "sell by date".

It's a pretty famous case...

Ouch.

 

[jdc324]

There are times when you just have understand what is toxic. Mercury in any form is toxic.

Yes, there are times when you just have understand what is toxic.

What dose of mercury is toxic? (Are all forms of mercury equally toxic?)

Which forms of mercury accumulate in the human body? To what extent?


What does the toxicity of mercury have to do with autism, by the way? Didn't you read the link I gave upthread pointing out that levels of mercury in children with autism were not significantly different from levels in children developing normally? Or the evidence that showed no link between TCV and autism? There was quite a lot of evidence. If you ignored it all, then perhaps I shouldn't be surprised if you still mistakenly believe that mercury in vaccines has anything to do with autism.

 

[shuttlt]

Look, apart from there being no thimerosal in MMR, the absense rather than presense of thimerosal being the cause of the deaths, and when thermosal is used the dose is tiny... is there anything wrong with the case for mercury in the MMR causing autism?

 

[jdc324]

Look, apart from there being no thimerosal in MMR, the absense rather than presense of thimerosal being the cause of the deaths, and when thermosal is used the dose is tiny... is there anything wrong with the case for mercury in the MMR causing autism?

That's pretty much it.

(I suppose you could probably add the research that shows no significant differences in mercury levels in those with or without autism. Or all the research that has been conducted that shows no link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism. But they're just trivial details given your first point.)

 

[shuttlt]

So, apart from there being no thimerosal in MMR, the absence rather than presence of thimerosal being the cause of the deaths, when thermosal is used the dose is tiny, there being no difference in mercury levels in kids with autism and those without and all the research being against a link.... it's safe to say that the evidence isn't there yet?

I had a flu vaccination about a week ago. Can anybody recommend a natural chelating agent to restore my homeostasis?

 

[Tanalia]

I had a flu vaccination about a week ago. Can anybody recommend a natural chelating agent to restore my homeostasis?

I recommend 500 to 1000 ml of dihydrogen monoxide daily.

 

[TSR]

I recommend 500 to 1000 ml of dihydrogen monoxide daily.

But stay away from the hydrogen hydroxide -- that stuff's two third hydrogen and will blow up your tummy...

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Yeah, but have you ever seen the health effects of oxygen?
Highly dangerous substance that, it can oxidize nearly ANYTHING, and that dihydrogenmonoxide is like almost 90% weight ratio oxygen.

 

[TSR]

Pffft. Hydrogen hydroxide can corrode solid iron!