• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

What actually do JREF religious believers believe?

RoseMontague said:
And where did all the stuff that makes all the stuff in the universe come from?
Click to expand...

Lawrence Krauss: Life, the Universe and Nothing


He's given many talks on the subject, if you get a chance to see him, I'd recommend you take it.
 
Last edited:
Resume said:
So as it stands currently, you're not aware of any physical effects manifested by this soul you posit?

If not, what does it do?
Click to expand...

Imo, there are physical things and there is a spiritual side to the universe as well. These sides interact and are both part of the universe. The purpose of each physical thing is beyond me.

My personal opinion is that God exists on the spiritual side and the soul is a way that God connects and interacts with the physical side of creation.
 
zooterkin said:
Lawrence Krauss: Life, the Universe and Nothing


He's given many talks on the subject, if you get a chance to see him, I'd recommend you take it.
Click to expand...

I don't make any claims to know as much about physics as he does, I will note he is not in agreement with some other very smart people on string theory. His concept of scientific morality is an interesting one. He appears to me to be trying to explain the spiritual side of the universe in terms of the physical. That is of course, just my first impression. I will check out the Fifth Essence when I get a chance, considering my avatar and all. All this dark matter stuff is interesting.
 
RoseMontague said:
I don't understand the question in relation to my statement.
Click to expand...

If the universe was not created for us then why does god send a constant stream of new souls from other parts of the universe? Why is he depleting other planets of souls just to send them to us?
 
dafydd said:
If the universe was not created for us then why does god send a constant stream of new souls from other parts of the universe? Why is he depleting other planets of souls just to send them to us?
Click to expand...

I have no idea of what you are talking about but I will attempt an answer based on what I think you are asking.

My opinion is that souls exist outside of time, they simply interact with and are part of life in the physical universe, there is no coming and going or before and after. Souls are, just as God is, not subject to time, space, and distance. I don't believe the rules are the same on the spiritual side.
 
RoseMontague said:
I have no idea of what you are talking about but I will attempt an answer based on what I think you are asking.

My opinion is that souls exist outside of time, they simply interact with and are part of life in the physical universe, there is no coming and going or before and after. Souls are, just as God is, not subject to time, space, and distance. I don't believe the rules are the same on the spiritual side.
Click to expand...

Good luck. Total nonsense of course, but good luck with that. Have you any idea why god gives children cancer?
 
dafydd said:
Good luck. Total nonsense of course, but good luck with that. Have you any idea why god gives children cancer?
Click to expand...

Have you read what some scientists believe about the multi-verse and what other laws could govern other universes? And yet many of these same scientists can't comprehend that there may be a spiritual side to our universe. Just incredible. God doesn't give children cancer. Life and death are a part of the physical side of our universe. We just have to deal with the good and bad as best we can. Even the scientist mentioned by zooterkin proposes a scientific basis to morality, without even having the concept of God. Personaly, I believe it is part of our nature to survive as a species , imo.
 
RoseMontague said:
I didn't say this. I think it is highly arrogant to think the universe was created for us.
Click to expand...

RoseMontague said:
Imo, there are physical things and there is a spiritual side to the universe as well. These sides interact and are both part of the universe. The purpose of each physical thing is beyond me.

My personal opinion is that God exists on the spiritual side and the soul is a way that God connects and interacts with the physical side of creation.
Click to expand...

Why are there souls if god didn't make the universe for us?

Do souls always exist or is a new one created with each birth?
 
RoseMontague said:
Imo, there are physical things and there is a spiritual side to the universe as well. These sides interact and are both part of the universe. The purpose of each physical thing is beyond me.

My personal opinion is that God exists on the spiritual side and the soul is a way that God connects and interacts with the physical side of creation.
Click to expand...

If these things interact, they can be measured.
 
Last edited:
RoseMontague said:
I don't make any claims to know as much about physics as he does, I will note he is not in agreement with some other very smart people on string theory. His concept of scientific morality is an interesting one. He appears to me to be trying to explain the spiritual side of the universe in terms of the physical. That is of course, just my first impression. I will check out the Fifth Essence when I get a chance, considering my avatar and all. All this dark matter stuff is interesting.
Click to expand...

You might have missed the string theory joke he made.
 
RoseMontague said:
I don't know the answers to your questions. I believe in the basic concept of a soul as well as the basic concept of a creator. Both of these concepts are common in many if not most religions and are part of my personal beliefs.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm not trying to take that away from you (for a change) but I find that the basic concept of a soul is usually so undefined and vague, that different people -- or even the same people at different times -- believe mutually incompatible things. In fact, if you take the intersection of all the main beliefs about a soul, the core of that basic concept if you will, you'll get a big fat nothing.

The basic concept of a soul, historically has the only common ground of being some derivative of "breath". In fact, in most contemporary languages, it's still derived from "breath". It's a dying person's last breath. He exhaled something, and now he's not alive any more. What went out? Where did it go?

Of course, nowadays you undoubtedly know that asking where did someone's breath go is like asking where did the ticking go when the clock stopped. So I assume that's not your basic concept of a soul.

So, really, what is your basic concept of a soul? What does it do? Does it have any material properties? (Because that's another thing where different people's ideas differ. Some thought it actually has weight, while others thought it can be caught in transit by birds like whippoorwills.) Does it need sustenance?`(The ancient Egyptians thought: yes.) Can it feel hunger? (Ditto.) Can it die after you're already dead? (Ditto.) Does it depend on anything someone else does? (Ditto.) Do you have just one soul, or several kinds of souls? (Ditto.) Etc.

How would you describe it, in your own words?

It's not enough to have a name for a concept. One must also know what it means, basically.
 
tsig said:
Why are there souls if god didn't make the universe for us?

Do souls always exist or is a new one created with each birth?
Click to expand...

Screw BIRTHS. What happens when a zygote divides wrong and now there are two zygotes? Does God create a new human soul?

Seems to me like with only a few enzymes and a zygote fertilized in vitro, you could produce billions of souls and send them straight to either Limbo (if the Catholics use to be right) and strike one mother of deals with Lucifer for THAT kind of payment, or to heavens (of most fundies are right) and you've saved more souls than Jesus. In fact, you could do it industrially, and save or damn more souls per month than there are people who ever lived.

ETA: credit for the idea goes to SMBC, of course.
 
Last edited:
HansMustermann said:
Screw BIRTHS. What happens when a zygote divides wrong and now there are two zygotes? Does God create a new human soul?

Seems to me like with only a few enzymes and a zygote fertilized in vitro, you could produce billions of souls and send them straight to either Limbo (if the Catholics use to be right) and strike one mother of deals with Lucifer for THAT kind of payment, or to heavens (of most fundies are right) and you've saved more souls than Jesus. In fact, you could do it industrially, and save or damn more souls per month than there are people who ever lived.

ETA: credit for the idea goes to SMBC, of course.
Click to expand...

If we make enough souls and send them to the nether regions maybe we could fill them up so they couldn't take any more souls then all of us would have to live forever.

(Soul train, we're shipping them on the soul train.)
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
How does saying god did it answer that question?

I'm not saying I know, but adding a god layer doesn't add a thing.
Click to expand...
Yes it does, and an important one too. You see, Rose can ask you a hard question, and when you can't answer, it's a palpable hit, but in return all she has to say is that God did it, and ignorance and completeness become magically one. God wraps the great mysteries of the universe in pretty paper and ties them with a bow. You never have to open them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom