Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Estellea]

Wake up.

There haven't been any valid studies. The idiocy is that cause can't be determined from who/what was available in the room so to speak.

The age of the father? If that were even close to reality it would have been common knowledge centuries long past.

Hinting to the public "the age of the father" as a possible cause of autism is THE MEDICAL/SCIENTIFIC community flexing its STOCKHOLM muscles.


The following doesn't bother you?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162...overdiagnosis-in-1-million-women-study-finds/

Given the recent phenomenon of older paternity how could this be "common knowledge centuries long past"? The topic is vaccines and autism so please stop with the Mikey Adams drama distraction about mammograms.

There have been plenty of valid studies; you just don't like their conclusions. Now that is idiocy.

Este

 

[Estellea]

That's true Miss Kit although the attack rate was still higher in unvaccinated than in vaccinated pertussis cases. Measles however is clearly spreading through primarily unvaccinated thanks to anti-vaxx activities. The U.S. hasn't been hit too hard but Europe is a mess with measles replete with deaths and permanent neurological sequelae. Rubella is making a comeback too in the EU as well as Japan which also has an ongoing problem with mumps because of their stupid vaccine policies.

Este

 

[Acleron]

Wake up.

There haven't been any valid studies. The idiocy is that cause can't be determined from who/what was available in the room so to speak.

The age of the father? If that were even close to reality it would have been common knowledge centuries long past.
Hinting to the public "the age of the father" as a possible cause of autism is THE MEDICAL/SCIENTIFIC community flexing its STOCKHOLM muscles.


The following doesn't bother you?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162...overdiagnosis-in-1-million-women-study-finds/

When life times were so short, it would be difficult to note that the age of the father had anything to with it. But even it that wasn't a consideration how would this observation be made and worked out. There were probably just as many people in the past prepared to disregard reality as today.

 

[Giordano]

Wake up.

There haven't been any valid studies. The idiocy is that cause can't be determined from who/what was available in the room so to speak.

The age of the father? If that were even close to reality it would have been common knowledge centuries long past.

Hinting to the public "the age of the father" as a possible cause of autism is THE MEDICAL/SCIENTIFIC community flexing its STOCKHOLM muscles.


The following doesn't bother you?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162...overdiagnosis-in-1-million-women-study-finds/

Clayton,

Scientific studies prove autism not caused by vaccination.
Scientific studies show link between age of father and autism.

Sum of Clayton's carefully reasoned critique of these studies as presented here: "Nonsense!"

Surely you have read these studies, or else you would have no basis for rejecting them; will you explain to us specifically why you reject their conclusions? I've asked this of you in the past without a response. Please respond this time.

 

[LSSBB]

Another instance of our resident Vax woo promoter pulling arguments from alternate orifices, seeing as the first well documented case of Autism dates to the 18th century.

Clayton, why bother to argue when you can't be bothered to do research?

 

[Giordano]

Clayton,

Also a possible link to air pollution:
http://www.examiner.com/article/researchers-link-higher-autism-risk-to-air-pollution.

Is this study also "nonsense"? Would you ever accept the discovery of a cause for autism other than your own discredited theory on vaccinations?

 

[Estellea]

Another instance of our resident Vax woo promoter pulling arguments from alternate orifices, seeing as the first well documented case of Autism dates to the 18th century.

Clayton, why bother to argue when you can't be bothered to do research?

I have a very notable ancestor whose geneology has been well-documented for centuries. I was perusing some of it not-too-long-ago and was taken by a description of one of my relatives that was indisputably Aspberger's written in the early 1700's. Many followed him and it seemed to become a family meme that so and so is another "Uncle Isaiah".

Este

 

[LSSBB]

I have a very notable ancestor whose geneology has been well-documented for centuries. I was perusing some of it not-too-long-ago and was taken by a description of one of my relatives that was indisputably Aspberger's written in the early 1700's. Many followed him and it seemed to become a family meme that so and so is another "Uncle Isaiah".

Este

There's also an earlier story involving someone Martin Luther thought was possessed by demons. Which was pretty much the prevailing diagnosis before Autism had a label (the term was coined by Swiss psychiatrist Eugen Bleuler in 1910).

Clayton, was Demonic Possession caused by immunization?

 

[pakeha]

For those who are questioning the need for polio vaccinations http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20493540

Here is a good introduction to the immune system and how vaccines work.
Not really intended for the deluded anti-vax nuts but useful.

Another instance of our resident Vax woo promoter pulling arguments from alternate orifices, seeing as the first well documented case of Autism dates to the 18th century.

Clayton, why bother to argue when you can't be bothered to do research?

Thanks for those interesting links, all three of them!

So, CM, how about it?
I've learned a lot from this thread- from about refrigerater mums to about just why one of the few things we can reasonably conclude DOESN'T cause autism is vaxx.

I'd be interested in learning just what you find so compelling about the the vaxx/autism connection.
I've yet to read anything that points in that direction. What have you read that has convinced you?

 

[TSR]

What have you read that has convinced you?

Not read, seen. Some random 10-year-old on yootoob says his autism was caused by vaccines, and if you can't trust an anonymous 10-year-old for medical advice, who can you trust?

 

[Tomtomkent]

Not read, seen. Some random 10-year-old on yootoob says his autism was caused by vaccines, and if you can't trust an anonymous 10-year-old for medical advice, who can you trust?

I'll tell you who not to trust; soccer teams. Think about... look how much more organised sport there is. Kids are exposed to football, basketball, cricket and swimming, often in the same holiday! What madness is this when kids are allowed far more sport than their body was meant to take, because people say it is healthy! Well they would say that! Wake up people!


You know who else not to trust? Vitamins! For hundreds of years peasents in europe could only eat pottage and gruel, and I may not have looked to see if any were autistic, but I choose to believe they weren't. Now days kids are forced to eat five portions of fruit and vegtables a day and doctors, in the pocket of big-farmer insist on balanced diets. We even get told to give kids vitamin supplements to further compound the risk. What else could possibly be the world wide cause of my belief if it is not the increased worldwide standard of dietry and nutritional awareness? Where are the studies to determine how much vitamin c a child can take ? Do you know how many servicemen left because they had to eat three meals a day? Three! No I dont know either but I will ask again, and suggest that this is somehow connected to the GWS victims also eating balanced meals. And do you know where those meals ended up? The gastric tract. Yeah! Damned vitamins!

 

[000063]

Wake up.

There haven't been any valid studies.

That agree with you.

The idiocy is that cause can't be determined from who/what was available in the room so to speak.

Not on an individual basis, no.

The age of the father? If that were even close to reality it would have been common knowledge centuries long past.

Incredulity, appeal to "common sense", bandwagon fallacy.

Hinting to the public "the age of the father" as a possible cause of autism is THE MEDICAL/SCIENTIFIC community flexing its STOCKHOLM muscles.

The same community that is all lying about whether they give their kids vaccines? I assume you have some evidence of the claim?

The following doesn't bother you?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162...overdiagnosis-in-1-million-women-study-finds/

The medical community is fallible. We knew that already. Whoop tee do.

 

[Cheezey D]

Wake up.

Wide awake thanx!

The following doesn't bother you?

Nope. What has that to do with "VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM!!!!!!!! "


D

 

[jdc324]

Cliche.

Groundless assertion.

Argument from incredulity.

Irrelevant link.

Impressive stuff. I'm now convinced of your case.

 

[jdc324]

That's true Miss Kit although the attack rate was still higher in unvaccinated than in vaccinated pertussis cases. Measles however is clearly spreading through primarily unvaccinated thanks to anti-vaxx activities. The U.S. hasn't been hit too hard but Europe is a mess with measles replete with deaths and permanent neurological sequelae. Rubella is making a comeback too in the EU as well as Japan which also has an ongoing problem with mumps because of their stupid vaccine policies.

Este

I was looking at info on the pertussis vaccine for a thread on another forum and I noticed that as well as the attack rate being higher in the unvaccinated population, symptoms in those who caught pertussis were more severe in that group.

Re measles and vaccine coverage: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20510525 We've finally crawled past the 90% mark in England & Wales to reach a 14-year high, still short of the 95% level that is the target.

 

[Acleron]

I was looking at info on the pertussis vaccine for a thread on another forum and I noticed that as well as the attack rate being higher in the unvaccinated population, symptoms in those who caught pertussis were more severe in that group.

Re measles and vaccine coverage: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20510525 We've finally crawled past the 90% mark in England & Wales to reach a 14-year high, still short of the 95% level that is the target.

If there was any justice, Wakefield would be prosecuted for manslaughter.

 

[phildonnia]

I don't think the anti-vaxers ever claimed that vaccinations don't work, or that they don't lead to lower rates of disease.

 

[Estellea]

I don't think the anti-vaxers ever claimed that vaccinations don't work, or that they don't lead to lower rates of disease.

Oh they absolutely do! One of their battle cries is that vaccines don't work and the diseases were in decline prior to their introduction anyhow. Improved sanitation and better medical care was responsible. The twits don't even know the difference between morbidity and mortality.

Este

 

[pakeha]

Not read, seen. Some random 10-year-old on yootoob says his autism was caused by vaccines, and if you can't trust an anonymous 10-year-old for medical advice, who can you trust?

Indeed.

 

[catsmate]

So the link contains facts.

Alas yes. Also science which may be a bit beyond the understanding of the average anti-vax loon.