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Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

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The Law is the Law. Deal with it.


Robert wouldn't it just be easier to demonstrate the validity of your view by documenting your visit to see your own original birth certificate held by state x? Or having someone authorize you to see theirs?

Why are you avoiding doing this obvious next step - by recording it you'll prove us all wrong........or do we have to sit thru a thousand repetitions of you saying the same thing over and over?
 
“§338-18 Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.
(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:
(1) The registrant;
(2) The spouse of the registrant;
(3) A parent of the registrant;
(4) A descendant of the registrant;
(5) A person having a common ancestor with the registrant;
(6) A legal guardian of the registrant;
(7) A person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;"

The Law is the Law. Deal with it.

Why do you only show part of the law instead of the whole law especially when Border Reiver posted the entire law not 5 posts above yours? It's almost as if you're being intentionally dishonest.




Are you going to answer my question from earlier? Do you think that your birth certificate that you have on file is your original birth certificate?
 
Why do you only show part of the law instead of the whole law especially when Border Reiver posted the entire law not 5 posts above yours? It's almost as if you're being intentionally dishonest.




Are you going to answer my question from earlier? Do you think that your birth certificate that you have on file is your original birth certificate?

A ridiculous question. I don't know if it's a copy or an original. In those days, there may have been more than one original created. Sure looks original to me. Certainly not a digitally created copy. Nor a photo-stat. If Obama had what I had, he could have simply produced it which he did not do.
 
Robert, are you aware that the official vital record of births in Hawaii consists of an electronic database?

They stopped using paper forms years ago.
 
“§338-18 Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.
(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:
(1) The registrant;
(2) The spouse of the registrant;
(3) A parent of the registrant;
(4) A descendant of the registrant;
(5) A person having a common ancestor with the registrant;
(6) A legal guardian of the registrant;
(7) A person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;"

The Law is the Law. Deal with it.


Robert,

The law doesn't say what you claim it says, even if you put bits of it in larger fonts and/or bold.

Deal with it.
 
A ridiculous question. I don't know if it's a copy or an original. In those days, there may have been more than one original created. Sure looks original to me. Certainly not a digitally created copy. Nor a photo-stat. If Obama had what I had, he could have simply produced it which he did not do.

Do you think the original was the one kept by the state or the bit of paper given to your parents?
 
A ridiculous question. I don't know if it's a copy or an original. In those days, there may have been more than one original created. Sure looks original to me. Certainly not a digitally created copy. Nor a photo-stat. If Obama had what I had, he could have simply produced it which he did not do.

Then Robert instead of argument why don't you just prove your pointby....

Robert wouldn't it just be easier to demonstrate the validity of your view by documenting your visit to see your own original birth certificate held by state x? Or having someone authorize you to see theirs?

Why are you avoiding doing this obvious next step - by recording it you'll prove us all wrong........or do we have to sit thru a thousand repetitions of you saying the same thing over and over?
 
Gentlemen

As we now have a perfect way to verify what Robert says is truth may I recommend that we suspended participation in this long thread with its multiple 'fringe resets' and wait for him to show proof that he can authorize someone else to gain access and view his original birth certificate held by state 'x'?

Unless of course you want to continue this 'yes it is', 'no it isn't' type of exchange ad nauseam
 
A ridiculous question.

Hardly. Your ability to know the difference between an original and a certified copy, and which one of those you have, speaks directly to your expectation for Obama and Gov. Abercrombie. You've said that Abercrombie should be able to obtain Obama's paper original, with Obama's consent, because you have your original. You've further claimed that Obama should possess his original and should have supplied that upon request. Your claim to possess your original is the basis for your expectation in both those claims. Hence it is key to your argument, which was already on shaky ground to begin with.

While you might have been able to prove you possess your original birth certificate, that does not trump the policy of the states I'm aware of, which retain the original in their vital records repositories and issue copies, and have done so since the turn of the last century. Hence it is of dubious value anyway in setting up an expectation for someone born in Hawaii. But if you cannot even prove you have your own paper original, then your claim (weak as it was to begin with) simply fails.

I don't know if it's a copy or an original.

Then that is fatal to your claim.

In those days, there may have been more than one original created.

That's quite an imaginative hedge, but speculation doesn't save your claim.

If Obama had what I had, he could have simply produced it which he did not do.

Special pleading. Neither Obama nor anyone else is obligated to possess or furnish "what you have," but only what the states are bound by the Constitution to accept from each other. It doesn't matter whether the copy is elegantly calligraphed, typed manually into a form, photocopied, or laser-printed from the state's database in Cheltenham Extra Heavy on copy paper, so long as it bears the issuing agency's seal. In fact, the more you change your story, the more I'm inclined to believe that no one has "what you have" -- including you. "What you have" seems to change depending on the needs of the argument du jour.

Obama in fact furnished two certified copies of his birth certificate, one the Standard Form issued by Hawaii and which was equivalent to that deemed authoritative enough for his opponents, and a facsimile copy of the long form. I'm not sure what it will take for you to realize that your made-up rules don't apply.

And you, who admit you cannot even tell the difference between an original and a copy, have the audacity to personally declare them invalid and to personally discredit all those professional election officers and professional journalists who examined the copies in person and were satisfied. Your ignorance and uncertainty, while creatively hedged, is not a sufficient basis for the world to declare that Obama's certificates (expressly plural) are invalid.
 
A ridiculous question. I don't know if it's a copy or an original. In those days, there may have been more than one original created. Sure looks original to me. Certainly not a digitally created copy. Nor a photo-stat. If Obama had what I had, he could have simply produced it which he did not do.


You honestly think you have an original copy of your birth certificate? If so, then what does the state have? Does the state have another "original"? Does the state have a copy of the thing you have?

Your original birth certificate is in the hands of the state (or your local registrar of birth records). What you have there is one of the first certified copies - likely made for free and mailed to your mother a few weeks after you were born.

How can you not know this?
 
A ridiculous question. I don't know if it's a copy or an original. In those days, there may have been more than one original created. Sure looks original to me. Certainly not a digitally created copy. Nor a photo-stat. If Obama had what I had, he could have simply produced it which he did not do.

I note you still duck the question of Romney's published COLB.

Tell me, Robert, why would you have more than one original created? You are only born once, so why the need for multiple originals for you? Are you part of some Republican conspiracy?
 
I had to get duplicates for both my boys, both born in Hawaii. My ex wouldn't cough them up and I had custody and had to enroll them.

and as stated throughout this thread, I've asked for Certified copies of my Hawaii Birth Certificate 3 times.

My original, provided by the state when i was born was lost by my parents when I was 3 years old, when we moved several times. We didn't need it, until I got a job when I was 16 years old. I received a Certified copy at that time. I gave that copy to my parents, and in another move, lost that copy.

In 2005, I requested another copy from Hawaii, right before I made my move to the mainland.

In 2010 I requested another copy due to hearing about a format change made from the previous years.


It's not uncommon. IN fact when I did my 2005 request the man in front of me, was requesting 6 copies each of his three children's birth certificates.

Records like this go missing for all sorts of reasons. It's a pretty desperate straw for RP to grasp at.

And yet, RP won't be bothered to do the same.
 
and as stated throughout this thread, I've asked for Certified copies of my Hawaii Birth Certificate 3 times.

My original, provided by the state when i was born was lost by my parents when I was 3 years old, when we moved several times. We didn't need it, until I got a job when I was 16 years old. I received a Certified copy at that time. I gave that copy to my parents, and in another move, lost that copy.

In 2005, I requested another copy from Hawaii, right before I made my move to the mainland.

In 2010 I requested another copy due to hearing about a format change made from the previous years.


It's not uncommon. IN fact when I did my 2005 request the man in front of me, was requesting 6 copies each of his three children's birth certificates.

And yet, RP won't be bothered to do the same.

Like most people, I do not lose important documents like Birth Certificates. Upon a recent re-examination, my birth certificate appears to be an original, not a copy, signed in pen and ink by doctor and nurse.
 
You honestly think you have an original copy of your birth certificate? ...snip... How can you not know this?

It is in his best interests not to know. It goes instantly diisproves his argument.
 
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and as stated throughout this thread, I've asked for Certified copies of my Hawaii Birth Certificate 3 times.

My original, provided by the state when i was born was lost by my parents when I was 3 years old, when we moved several times. We didn't need it, until I got a job when I was 16 years old. I received a Certified copy at that time. I gave that copy to my parents, and in another move, lost that copy.

In 2005, I requested another copy from Hawaii, right before I made my move to the mainland.

In 2010 I requested another copy due to hearing about a format change made from the previous years.


It's not uncommon. IN fact when I did my 2005 request the man in front of me, was requesting 6 copies each of his three children's birth certificates.

For myself, I think I first needed one when I was 17 and applying for a passport (It was from NJ, but I lived in CA then). At the time I was still living with my parents and they had a copy. When I moved from CA to NV about 12 years ago, I no longer had the passport or the BC, but NV was able to issue me a new license based on my having a CA one.

It was not until 5 years ago, when I moved to IN that I needed proof of citizenship to get a new license. So I got online and ordered one from NJ, and about 6 weeks later they arrived in the mail, 2 certified copies of my certificate of live birth. Indiana accepted it as proof of citizenship and I got my license.

In short, the same exact type of document that Obama originally provided to prove his eligibility to run for POTUS. From the very beginning the Birther claim was nonsense, yet every time Obama decides to actually jump through one of their ridiculous hoops and does so successfully, a new claim is made about his documents, and new goalposts are set. This thread details that so clearly, and I have been following this from the beginning.

And yet despite all of this, Obama still managed to win re-election. The Birther claim fails on the facts, it fails on the law, and now it even fails in the court of public opinion.
 
Like most people, I do not lose important documents like Birth Certificates. Upon a recent re-examination, my birth certificate appears to be an original, not a copy, signed in pen and ink by doctor and nurse.

Appears to be. Prove that it is an original, not just something that appears to be an original. And is there some kind of rule saying that a doctor and nurse can't sign a copy?


Of course even if your copy of your birth certificate was written in crayon on a piece of used toilet paper you would no doubt tell us it appears to be original. And you know what? It wouldn't matter. As long as the info on it was certified to be true it would be as good as an original which is what you've failed to understand since page one of this discussion.
 
Like most people, I do not lose important documents like Birth Certificates. Upon a recent re-examination, my birth certificate appears to be an original, not a copy, signed in pen and ink by doctor and nurse.

Really. Does the issuing authority know it has the copy on record then?

How do you tell the difference between the signiature on the original, and the signiature certifying a copy? Are they not made by pen and ink also?
 
Like most people, I do not lose important documents like Birth Certificates. Upon a recent re-examination, my birth certificate appears to be an original, not a copy, signed in pen and ink by doctor and nurse.


You appear to have your hospital birth record. It's a nice piece of paper, but it probably isn't your birth certificate.

If you could post a picture online (important information redacted), I could give you a better idea.

However, whether you have an old birth certificate or not is completely besides the point. "Most people" don't. And, even if "most people" do, that doesn't change the fact that some people don't. For those people, the only recourse is to get a certified birth record from their government office.

If you have your original birth certificate, what does your government record-keeper have?

If we count Obama as one of the "some" who lost the oldest copy of his birth certificate, what exact "original" do you expect Hawaii to have? And why should Obama bave to get an original from the State of Hawaii when you don't have to get an original from your state (because you seem to have your original)?

One way or another, your very, very silly argument would be much stronger if you proved that it was even possible to do what you want the President to do. Go to your state and try to view your original birth certificate - or whatever "original" they have.
 
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