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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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Everyone knows the IDF goes into Gaza to murder children and mentally diabled civilians. **** Israel!

Yes because the Palestinians are so pure white they would never ever ever deliberately target children, whereas when the evel Israelis hit miltary targets that Hamas and its allies have positioned next to residential homes and accidently kill children, they are instantly murderers.

18 March 1968 --A school bus in the Negev desert, Israel, struck a landmine set by Fatah terrorists. Two children were killed and 28 children injured.

22 May 1970 --12 killed, 19 injured (mostly children) in attack on school bus with three bazooka rockets.

11 April 1974 --18 killed (including 8 children), 16 injured in attack by three terrorists on residential building in Qiryat Shemona.

15 May 1974 --27 killed, 134 injured in attack on Ma'alot; terrorists killed 2 people in initial attack and took 90 children hostage; most casualties were inflicted by the terrorists during a rescue attempt in which 20 children and 1 soldier were killed (along with all three terrorists).

7 April 1980 --Five terrorists attack Misgav Am Kibbutz, Israel and take 9 infants hostage in a children's dormitory. Soldiers killed the terrorists in a rescue operation during which one child was killed and four children injured. Another two people (including one soldier) were killed and 12 injured (including ten soldiers).

29 October 1998 --1 soldier killed by car bomb driven into jeep escorting a school bus in Gaza. A terrorist driving an explosive-laden car attempted to collide with the bus but the escorting jeep moved to intercept the vehicle. The terrorist detonated the bomb, killing himself and one soldier in the jeep. Injured included two others in the jeep, 3 children, and 3 other adults.

20 November 2000 --2 killed, 9 injured (including 5 children) by roadside bomb exploding next to a school bus near Gush Katif at 7:30 AM.

4 September 2001 --20 injured in suicide bombing at 8:00 AM near school in Jerusalem, Israel. The terrorist may have been attempting to enter the school but detonated his bomb outside the school.

9 September 2001 --15 killed (including 7 children, 1 American, and 1 Brazilian), 130 injured in suicide bombing at Sbarro pizzeria in Jerusalem. The attacker detonated the bomb, 5 to 10 kg and filled with sc2hrapnel, just before 2 PM. The children killed were ages 2, 4, 8, 10, 14, 15, and 16; a teen age 18 was also killed. One of those injured was an 8-year old who lost 5 family members.

2 March 2002 --11 killed (including 7 children), over 50 injured by suicide bomber in Orthodox neighborhood of Jerusalem. The terrorist detonated the bomb at 7:15 PM next to a group of women with baby carriages outside a synagogue. Nine were killed immediately; one adult died 4 March and one 16-year-old died 20 June of injuries. Children killed were ages 7 months, 18 months, 3, 7, 12, 15, and 16. Those killed included 7 members of one family, attending a bar mitzvah.

28 May 2002 --A Palestinian terrorist shot several students on the grounds of Yeshivat Hetzim high school in Itamar, Israel. The gunman shot and killed two students (ages 15 and 17) playing basketball, then entered the school and shot three more students, killing one (age 17) and injuring two (both age 14). The gunman was then shot and killed by a security guard and the school principal.

2 May 2004 --Palestian terrorists fired on vehicles near Gush Katif, Gaza, stopping a car carrying a mother and her four children (ages 2, 7, 9, and 11). The terrorists approached the car and fatally shot each child, also shooting the pregnant mother in the belly. Another civilian in a separate vehicle was injured. Israeli soldiers arrived and exchanged fire with the terrorists, during which two soldiers were injured.

28 June 2004 --A Kassam rocket fired by terrorists struck near a nursery school in Sderot, Gaza Strip. Two people were killed, including one child, and 11 were injured.

26 December 2008 --A rocket fired by terrorists struck a house in Biet Lahiya, Gaza Strip, killing two girls and injuring three other children. The rocket, fired from Gaza, was probably intended for civilian targets in Israel proper. The girls killed were ages 5 and 12.

7 April 2011 --A laser-guided anti-tank missile was fired from Gaza at a school bus near Sa'ad, Israel, injuring a 16-year-old boy and the driver. The boy died 10 days later of head injuries. The school bus was nearly empty at the time of the attack.

But, no, it's only Israel that murders children...
 
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Yet Israel kills more children than the Palestinians by orders of magnitude but that's OK because its all "accidental" *nudge nudge* *wink wink*
 
Yet Israel kills more children than the Palestinians by orders of magnitude but that's OK because its all "accidental" *nudge nudge* *wink wink*

Well since you put it that way, I mean it should be obvious that Israel is evil because it's all Israel's fault that those that attack it do so while hiding in schools and residential buildings, and beside playgrounds and hospitals meaning that Israel is totally evil for doing exactly what the US and others have done, return fire and accept that there may be civilian causalities created by groups like Hamas using human shields. Or should they just stand back and say, yes keep firing your rockets at us, send more and more please.

Or are you meaning the ones that the horrible Israelis shoot when they are just throwing rocks at their soldiers, with slings capable of killing someone.

Or perhaps you mean the ones that the Israelis strap explosives to and then have them blow themselves up in crowded area outside of synagogue, oh wait, that ones not the Israelis, but hey it's still all their fault right?

But sure, it's all the same right, an airstrike killing a child because the military target that was hit was parked outside their bedroom, and stopping a car and shooting four children in the head, then the pregnant mother in the stomach. It's all the same.

Hey, I guess that make as Americans evil murders too.
 
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TIMELINE: ISRAEL'S LATEST ESCALATION IN GAZA -


THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 8

Following a two-week lull in violence, Israeli soldiers invade Gaza. In the resulting exchange of gunfire with Palestinian fighters, a 12-year-old boy is killed by an Israeli bullet while he plays soccer.

Shortly afterwards, Palestinian fighters blow up a tunnel along the Gaza-Israel frontier, injuring one Israeli soldier.

SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 10

An anti-tank missile fired by Palestinian fighters wounds four Israeli soldiers driving in a jeep along the Israel-Gaza boundary.

An Israeli artillery shell lands in a soccer field in Gaza killing two children, aged 16 and 17. Later, an Israeli tank fires a shell at a tent where mourners are gathered for a funeral, killing two more civilians, and wounding more than two dozen others.

SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 11

One Palestinian civilian is killed and dozens more wounded in Israeli attacks. Four Israeli civilians are also injured as a result of projectiles launched from Gaza, according to the Israeli government.

During an Israeli government cabinet meeting, Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz urges the government to "cut off the head of the snake... take out the leadership of Hamas in Gaza." He also calls for a cutting off of water, food, electricity, and fuel shipments to Gaza's 1.7 million people.

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 12

Palestinian militant factions agree to a truce if Israel ends its attacks.

WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 14

Israel breaks two days of calm by assassinating Ahmed Jabari, the head of Hamas' military wing. According to reports, at least eight other Palestinians are killed in Israeli attacks, including at least two children. Palestinian militant groups vow to respond.
 
This is no surprise, Israel has a long history of divide an conquer - murder the moderates and the peacemakers, empower extremists and terrorists and then they never have to make concessions or be seem to be the obstructionist party
-----------------------------------

Most significant was the attempt of Egypt to broker a cease-fire, which the various factions in Gaza accepted, and a key player of which was Ahmad Jabari, the chief of Hamas's military wing. For an account of Jabari's role in negotiations for long-term cease-fire negotiations since the Shalit release, read Gershon Baskin's insider account in today's Open Zion as well as in Haaretz.  Jabari's assassination was a twofer for Israel -- they got rid of a moderate who was trying to produce a long term cease-fire, and they provoked  Hamas into launching massive rocket attacks.  The death of the family in Kiryat Malachi was the collateral damage of Israel's  misguided policy. The last thing they want is the security offered by a long-term cease-fire with Hamas.

http://www.jeremiahhaber.com/2012/11/and-thats-why-israel-doesnt-want-cease.html?m=1
 
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Jabari's assassination was a twofer for Israel -- they got rid of a moderate who was trying to produce a long term cease-fire, and they provoked Hamas into launching massive rocket attacks.

You're a twofer.
 
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Yes because the Palestinians are so pure white they would never ever ever deliberately target children,[..]

Personally, I have never said that Palestinians are pure white, but..

Palestinians killed by Israeli security forces 4660 1840 6500 69
Palestinians killed by Israeli civilians 4 46 50 3
Israeli civilians killed by Palestinians 39 215 254 500
Israeli security force personnel killed by Palestinians 106 147 253 90
Foreign citizens killed by Palestinians 11 7 18 40
Foreign citizens killed by Israeli security forces 6 6 12 0
Palestinians killed by Palestinians 537 134 671 0
Palestinians executed by the Palestinian Authority 8 2 10 0
Palestinians executed by the Hamas Government 14 0 0
http://old.btselem.org/statistics/english/Casualties.asp

But, no, it's only Israel that murders children...

Even if it not Israel "only", it would be a good start to see if they can avoid to kill children, in first place
 
Maybe the 3 wars to exterminate the Jews weren't such a good idea, and has repurcussions?
[..]

So you are using past wars to justify land grabbing today?

The degree of terror felt by ordinary Palestinian civilians in Gaza is barely noticed in the media, in stark contrast to the world's awareness of terrorised and shock-treated Israeli citizens.'

The fact that none of the Western mainstream media company is owned by Palestinians or organizations close to Palestinians may have something to do with it.

1. Tell Hamas to stop setting up their rocket platforms in schools then. If someone shoots at Israel, Israel should not be forced to sit and take it just because the shooter is near civilians.

Is Israel also "forced" to steal err. take land outside their borders?

As for who it is that is targeting children... Here's a list just from October.
[..]

Very funny that someone is quoting the victim of one side completely forgetting of the victims on the other side.
Fully embued in "us vs them" mentality
 
I'd surely love to see you support that claim with evidence.

Dunno about children, but if we speak about civilians:

At least 6,617 Palestinians and 1,097 Israelis have been killed since September 29, 2000.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html

From the site of the UN

http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/5...2/Body/0.7866?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=jpg

Edited by LashL: 
Changed hotlink to regular link. Please see Rule 5.


http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/BE07C80CDA4579468525734800500272
 
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TIMELINE: ISRAEL'S LATEST ESCALATION IN GAZA -


THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 8

Following a two-week lull in violence, Israeli soldiers invade Gaza. In the resulting exchange of gunfire with Palestinian fighters, a 12-year-old boy is killed by an Israeli bullet while he plays soccer.

Shortly afterwards, Palestinian fighters blow up a tunnel along the Gaza-Israel frontier, injuring one Israeli soldier.

So we have a civilian killed during an exchange of gunfire. I also love the spin of "Following a two-week lull in violence". Did that author of your peice somehow miss all of these?

October 28 - Overnight, Palestinians fired two Qassam rockets into the Eshkol Regional Council. In the morning, a third Qassam rocket and two Grad missiles exploded near Beersheba. The Popular Resistance Committees claimed responsibility for one of the Grad missiles. The Beersheba municipality cancelled school; Mayor Rubik Danilovich explained that the decision resulted from experience, saying, "We've had four direct hits on schools, and each of those times was when we were told to resume normalcy." In the afternoon, another rocket landed near Ashkelon.

October 29 - Throughout the night and morning, Palestinians fired 20 rockets and mortars at Sderot and the Ashkelon Coast Regional Council. Residents of these towns were cautioned to stay within 15 seconds of reinforced "secure rooms" for protection in case a rocket fell.

October 30 - At 7:44 in the morning a rocket hit the outskirts of Dimona, no injuries or damage reported. That was the first time 45km rocket had been used.

October 31 - In the morning, Palestinians fired two Qassam rockets into the Eshkol Regional Council. One rocket exploded in an open area within a town, but caused no injuries or damage.

November 4 - Palestinians fired a Qassam rocket into Israel, causing no injuries or damage.

November 6 - At 10:20am Palestinians fired a rocket into the Eshkol Regional Council, causing no injuries or damage.

So over the period of your "two week lull in violence" there were 30 rocket and mortar attacks on Israel.

SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 10

An anti-tank missile fired by Palestinian fighters wounds four Israeli soldiers driving in a jeep along the Israel-Gaza boundary.

An Israeli artillery shell lands in a soccer field in Gaza killing two children, aged 16 and 17. Later, an Israeli tank fires a shell at a tent where mourners are gathered for a funeral, killing two more civilians, and wounding more than two dozen others.

So more casualities from returned fire.

SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 11

One Palestinian civilian is killed and dozens more wounded in Israeli attacks. Four Israeli civilians are also injured as a result of projectiles launched from Gaza, according to the Israeli government.

More spin. Notice thre "according to the Israeli Government" but it's never "according to the Palistinan Leadership". Also those "projectiles launched from Gaza"?

November 10
Palestinians fired 25 rockets at Ashkelon, Ashdod, Gan Yavne and other communities. The Iron Dome anti-rocket system intercepted at least one rocket aimed at Ashdod.

November 11 - Gazan groups fired over 100 rockets and mortars at Israeli cities and towns. A barrage against Sderot, timed to coincide with the morning commute to work, injured 3 people. One victim, physical education teacher Moshik Levy, was moderately wounded by shrapnel and glass from his car windshield which exploded in his face. A fourth person was injured while fleeing for cover, and five more people were treated for acute stress reaction. Two homes, one in Sderot and one in the Eshkol Regional Council, were damaged by direct rocket hits. United States Ambassador Dan Shapiro declared that his country "supports Israel’s right to defend itself and its citizens from these attacks."

Wow, Gazan's fire 125 rockets at Israel and then complain when Israel strikes back.

During an Israeli government cabinet meeting, Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz urges the government to "cut off the head of the snake... take out the leadership of Hamas in Gaza." He also calls for a cutting off of water, food, electricity, and fuel shipments to Gaza's 1.7 million people
.

Enrage politician calls for extreme measures after massive attack. Shall we look up what those in congress were demanding after 9/11? You know, like killing the leaders of Al Qaeda?

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 12

Palestinian militant factions agree to a truce if Israel ends its attacks.

Cool bro. Hey we'll attack you with hundreds of rockets, and then say we'll stop if you do.

WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 14

Israel breaks two days of calm by assassinating Ahmed Jabari, the head of Hamas' military wing. According to reports, at least eight other Palestinians are killed in Israeli attacks, including at least two children. Palestinian militant groups vow to respond.

How dare you attack our leadership for attacking you. Now we're going to have to attack you for attacking us for attacking you. See it's perfectly fine for Palestinian's to violate ceasefires repeatedly, but Israel is just evil for taking out a terrorist leader, just the USA did when they killed Bin Landen.
 
Personally, I have never said that Palestinians are pure white, but..

Palestinians killed by Israeli security forces 4660 1840 6500 69
Palestinians killed by Israeli civilians 4 46 50 3
Israeli civilians killed by Palestinians 39 215 254 500
Israeli security force personnel killed by Palestinians 106 147 253 90
Foreign citizens killed by Palestinians 11 7 18 40
Foreign citizens killed by Israeli security forces 6 6 12 0
Palestinians killed by Palestinians 537 134 671 0
Palestinians executed by the Palestinian Authority 8 2 10 0
Palestinians executed by the Hamas Government 14 0 0
http://old.btselem.org/statistics/english/Casualties.asp

Interest stats, when you dig into them they include people killed fleeing a check point, people killed playing in a field from which rockets had just been fired from, people who died in a fire started by a rocket, people who were killed trying to sneak into Israel. A lot of people sadly killed because they were in the wrong place too, though as has been pointed out repeatedly, when a military force places military targets (especially weapons) in places where return fire or that equipment/target being attack can lead to civilian causalties, the responsiblility for those deaths is on the head of those that placed the equipment in the civilian areas.

Even if it not Israel "only", it would be a good start to see if they can avoid to kill children, in first place

The difference is that Israel doesn't seek to target children. Yes children and civilians get caught in the crossfire, it's a very sad fact of war, and it gets worse when one side cares so little about it's people that it uses them as human shields and hides amongst the population instead of wearing uniforms.

As long as there are groups who are willing to hide among civilian populations and indiscriminately attack civilians on the other side, they are going to bring their own civilians under threat of attack and death.
 
I'd surely love to see you support that claim with evidence.

Why, do you have trouble sourcing information from anywhere other than the Israeli Ministry of Truth?

Note that this was published prior to Cast Lead, so no doubt the current figures are even more skewed on Israel's favour

A total of 971 children have been killed in Israeli-Palestinian conflict violence, representing 18% of the total number of conflict deaths. Children are protected, in a number of legal instruments, including the Convention on the Rights of the Child, against arbitrary loss of life, even in armed conflict.

Of the overall number of children killed, 88% were Palestinian and 12 % were Israeli.The trend of child deaths mirrors the total rate: the number of Israeli children killed has declined markedly while that of Palestinian children remains high.

Palestinian children make up 20% of the total Palestinian deaths while Israeli children represent 12% of total Israeli


http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/BE07C80CDA4579468525734800500272
 
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Very funny that someone is quoting the victim of one side completely forgetting of the victims on the other side.
Fully embued in "us vs them" mentality

It has nothing to do with "forgetting of the victims on the other side" or an "us vs them" mentality.

It was in response to people here attacking Israel as monsters and child murderers because children unfortunately die in the crossfire between Israel and the Militants while ignoring that these same militants have for a long time deliberately and systematically targeted and killed children at close range and very deliberately.

Killing a child because you blow up a house containing an ammuntion dump next to his home, and the resulting explosion destroys his house as well and kills him is not the same as stopping a car and shooting the child in the head.
 
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