General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[Eddie Dane]

Yes, psychopathic bullies invariably blame their victims. Where do you suggest that the people of Gaza relocate their children to? France?



Translation: "Submit because we don't mind killing your children if that's what it takes."

Another child-killing psychopath bravely speaks out! Disgusting.

You'll be hard pressed to find any politician in history going:

look, we have to beat those guys.
Unless there's children around.

If that were the case, we could achieve world-peace by integrating military installations and playgrounds.

 

[JihadJane]

You'll be hard pressed to find any politician in history going:

look, we have to beat those guys.
Unless there's children around.

If that were the case, we could achieve world-peace by integrating military installations and playgrounds.

Really? What about all those fine words that tumble out of the mouths of "humanitarian" invaders about not wanting to kill civilians? How many of them threaten to kill children like Golda Meir did?


War is psychopathic, wars of aggressive conquest and colonisation particularly so.

I look forward to the UN declaring and enforcing a No-Fly Zone over Gaza, as they have done in other countries to prevent masscres and to protect civilians from military maniacs.

Here is a picture distributed by the IDF spokesman, in which the launching site of a rocket is marked. It is located in a residential zone.
[qimg]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-e9MjJGV4Ot0/UKQ0XmrWDGI/AAAAAAAAEe8/N4e8-hWSarY/s1600/Zeitoun.jpg[/qimg]
Locating such sites in residential areas is a strategic choice by Hamas. It is also a war crime. This approach has been used for quite a while, though recently they started to built underground launch sites from concrete. Anyway, this strategy aims to either use their own civilians as shields, assuming the IDF does not return fire, or to use the suffering of their civilians politically, if the IDF does take action.

Poor innocent, maligned IDF, just can't stop themselves from using massively dispropotionate violence! It's the Palestinian's fault!

If Israel is concerned about having to kill other people's children in order to protect their own children they could return some of the land they have stolen from Palestinians so that Israel could then launch a safer, more humane assault on the open-air prison camp they have forced the Palestinians to live in.


Israel said it hit 250 targets in Gaza last night, 126 of them rocket launch sites.

 

[bit_pattern]

Is it actually histrionics when it was actually tried? 3 times?

Thanks for further illustrating the point

 

[ddt]

Israel offered Arafat everything that the PLO wanted, bar one thing, the right of return, and he rejected it. There is no compromise from the Palastinian side, their only acceptable result is the removal of Israel. How do you talk with people who simply refuse to negotiate and reach a peaceful compromise?

Israel promised the return of all refugees in Lausanne in 1949. This was also a precondition for UN membership. Once they were member of the UN, they reneged on the promise.

 

[bigjelmapro]

I saw pictures distributed by the US Secretary of State purporting to be of Iraqi mobile chemical weapon factories once...

So all the launching sites observed launching actual missiles, weapons factories raided and the missiles landing within Israel and Gaza itself (failed launches by Hamas and the various terrorist groups), and the missiles being intercepted by Iron dome and such are what.....CGI? A powerpoint presentation?

Who wants to name BP's overused fallacy above?

 

[BenBurch]

I saw pictures distributed by the US Secretary of State purporting to be of Iraqi mobile chemical weapon factories once...

Except we know there ARE missile sites because there are missiles falling from the sky.

There the existence of the thing in question was not evident.

 

[WildCat]

People had property, ancestral homes. All seized as war spoils and parceled out. That is why they wanted law of return. They wanted to return home.

Are you talking about the Arabs who abandoned their property and fled in 1948 ater their Arab brothers assured them they could return once all the Jews were killed/driven into the sea?

Problem for them is the genocide didn't go as planned, the filthy Jews, the cancerous tumor on the earth, fought back!

But 64 years later the Palestinians still cling to their dream of killing all the Jews and reclaiming Israel as their own. Perhaps this is the bit that creates an obstacle for peace?

 

[WildCat]

I suppose it would be too much to expect a source to substantiate this assertion? I mean, I understand that there is not a uniform distribution of population but > 4000 per sq km is a **** load, do you have some kind of evidence that puts these "open areas" into some kind of perspective?

Is there no Google Earth on your internet?

 

[Doctor Evil]

Israel promised the return of all refugees in Lausanne in 1949. This was also a precondition for UN membership. Once they were member of the UN, they reneged on the promise.

No they did not. They promised to absorb 100000, which was not all of them.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Israel promised the return of all refugees in Lausanne in 1949. This was also a precondition for UN membership. Once they were member of the UN, they reneged on the promise.

Israel didn't promise anything of the sort and wasn't a prerequisite for UN membership. Pappe seems to make this baseless assertion though. Israel having made several offers only to be met by Arab rejectionism throughout does not make Israel obligated to adhere to these rejected offers.

To my knowledge, even the UN resolutions which the Lausanne Conference was based on, 181 and 194, were rejected by Arab league members.

Quite strange though the ongoing concept of Israel making major concessions without one iota of concessions on the part of the Arab nations who created the refugee issue in the first place, on both sides (Jewish refugees being magically omitted, only be applied to Israel...

 

[WildCat]

Is it actually histrionics when it was actually tried? 3 times?

But surely they wouldn't try it a 4th time? Sure, Hamas says they want to kill all the Jews for Allah and the PLO can't seem to find the time to amend their Covenant to remove the language calling for Israel's destruction, but these are just minor details. People like bit_pattern know what's REALLY in their hearts!

 

[Captain.Sassy]

That is far from being true. The Israeli air force have attacked hundreds of targets, including long range rockets, rocket launchers, and Hamas posts. Many of those are in residential areas (because Hamas intentionally placed them there).

I never really understood this. I can understand people saying 'Hamas has no right to fight', but I don't understand people saying 'Hamas has to avoid residential areas'. It seems impossible, given the circumstances. In the Gaza strip, where else is there to put arms or fight from? As far as I know it's a pretty densely inhabited piece of land.

 

[WildCat]

Yes, psychopathic bullies invariably blame their victims. Where do you suggest that the people of Gaza relocate their children to? France?

Why can't they stay in Gaza?

 

[Captain.Sassy]

Sigh. You could easily do some research yourself. This one is trivial. Go do google maps and look for the satellite map of Gaza. Around a 1/3 of the area is not built. Most of it is used for agriculture.

Could they effectively hide rockets in agricultural fields?

 

[WildCat]

I haven't read through the thread yet, so my apologies if this has been brought up already:

The Gaza strip is very densely populated: It is a bit smaller than the City and County of Denver, Colorado, but has more than twice Denver's population. The population density of the Gaza strip is higher than Berlin's, higher than Birmingham's (England). It's pretty damned difficult to find a spot within the city limits of Denver, Berlin or Birmingham where you could field an army without being too close to civilians for comfort, and it would be even harder in the Gaza strip. Just look at it at Google maps!

This is not to excuse the military leaders of Hamas, and I am not saying they aren't deliberately operating from civilian areas, just pointing out that they don't really have a lot of options if they must stage attacks from within the strip.

ETA: Ahhh it has been mentioned...

It's so densely populated that Hamas had nowhere to put their military headquarters except in the basement of a hospital?

 

[BenBurch]

This is ********** up on both sides. And both sides are evil.

 

[Doctor Evil]

Could they effectively hide rockets in agricultural fields?

It will be harder, and would definitely put them at a disadvantage. But it wont put their own citizens at risk, and wont be a war crime. In any case, my point is that once Hamas hide their rockets in residential area it is Hamas that should be held responsible to civilian injuries and deaths resulting from air strikes against those rockets.

 

[angrysoba]

This is ********** up on both sides. And both sides are evil.

Evil for what?

 

[WildCat]

This is ********** up on both sides. And both sides are evil.

One side is much more evil than the other.

The government in Israel isn't vowing to kill every last Arab in Gaza, for example. The government in Gaza? They got elected on the promise to kill all the Jews, that they'd continue the good work of destroying Israel and complete the job Syria, Egypt et al failed to do 3 times before.

But as a Palestine supporter here once said, just because a political party advocates genocide doesn't mean you shouldn't vote for them if you like their economic poicies.

 

[WildCat]

Evil for what?

Defending themselves. If they had just allowed themselves to be driven into the sea in 1948 or subsequent wars we wouldn't have this Jewish problem now.