Presidential Primaries 2016

[Tricky]

L.Y.S.: You did nothing wrong. I don't understand why everyone is freaking out.

I would say that the choice of words was poor. Such hot-button words may suggest racist attitudes even if they are none. You should be more careful about throwing phrases like "yes massah" and "slave girl" around as they evoke strong emotions.

However, L.Y.S., I agree with your basic analysis of Condi Rice, though I think race has nothing to do with it. She simply has political beliefs that lie outside of what most blacks (statistically) hold. So choosing her as a candidate because of her race would be a foolish move and one that would not attract blacks. The same could be said had the GOP chosen Herman Cain. Simply having black skin does not make most blacks vote for you.

 

[L.Y.S.]

L.Y.S.: You did nothing wrong. I don't understand why everyone is freaking out.

People expect for me to give some censored and politically correct version of the truth and that's just not going to happen. There are very real reasons why Condi wouldn't win if she was nominated and I spent several post proving the fact, while respect spent several post mudslinging instead of commenting on the validity of my assertions. He hasn't disproven a one of them, so I'm no particularly upset about anything. He’s just mad because I wasn’t sensitive to his oversensitive PC senses, which is something I simply won’t do, especially regarding black issues.

I would say that the choice of words was poor. Such hot-button words may suggest racist attitudes even if they are none. You should be more careful about throwing phrases like "yes massah" and "slave girl" around as they evoke strong emotions.

How can it be deduced that I am racist if I am of the said race and I am not making any general statement toward the rest of my race? It would be one thing if I said all black women who are members of the Republican Party are slave girls and go yes suh. But I never said that, my statement was about one extremely specific person and their character. And I respectfully showed examples of other blacks that have different positions than I and I still respect. I get that it is a sensitive topic, but in no way was I being racist when I made the factual statements about Condi's behavior.

However, L.Y.S., I agree with your basic analysis of Condi Rice, though I think race has nothing to do with it. She simply has political beliefs that lie outside of what most blacks (statistically) hold. So choosing her as a candidate because of her race would be a foolish move and one that would not attract blacks. The same could be said had the GOP chosen Herman Cain. Simply having black skin does not make most blacks vote for you.

THANK YOU, I had to repeat this a thousand times.

 

[respect]

L.Y.S.: You did nothing wrong. I don't understand why everyone is freaking out.

Do you see anything wrong with people calling Stacey Dash an uncle Tom house *****, Oreo, house slave and urging her to kill herself, link, or is that not racism because she supported Romney?

 

[respect]

I would say that the choice of words was poor. Such hot-button words may suggest racist attitudes even if they are none. You should be more careful about throwing phrases like "yes massah" and "slave girl" around as they evoke strong emotions.

However, L.Y.S., I agree with your basic analysis of Condi Rice, though I think race has nothing to do with it. She simply has political beliefs that lie outside of what most blacks (statistically) hold. So choosing her as a candidate because of her race would be a foolish move and one that would not attract blacks. The same could be said had the GOP chosen Herman Cain. Simply having black skin does not make most blacks vote for you.

If that is all he had said I would have agreed with him. Rice holds some political views that do not have a lot of support in black communities and nominating her, in the hopes that her being black would garner more black support, would not be a successful strategy.

However, I disagree with his view that it is okay to call her racially charged insults for the crime of holding conservative political views while being black, and I disagree with his assertion that the majority of black people are similarly racist.

 

[L.Y.S.]

I disagree with his assertion that the majority of black people are similarly racist.

I didn't condemn all conservative blacks. You've failed to read my post several times. You took that phrase and ran with it. I've already stated that being conservative and black doesn't automatically make a person a sell out. I even went out of my way to given an example of someone who is conservative and whom I still respect, and what'd you do? Ignore it. You just took the phrases, "slave girl" "yes massah" before I could give thorough justification for why I labeled her, and ran with them. And for the record, I didn't label Stacey dash like that because of her support of Romney. She too has a number of positions that would harm the black race. If you think I will respect someone who does not respect themselves, then you are sadly mistaken.

 

[respect]

I didn't condemn all conservative blacks. You've failed to read my post several times. You took that phrase and ran with it. I've already stated that being conservative doesn't automatically make a person a sell out. And I went into thorough detail in my post. You just took the phrases, "slave girl" "yes massah" before I could give thorough justification for while I labeled her the way that I did. And for the record, I didn't label Stacey dash like that because of her support of Romney. She too has a number of positions that would harm the black race. If you think I will respect someone who does not respect themselves, then you are sadly mistaken.

1. You have not demonstrated in any sense that Rice is or was submissive to white people.

2. You have not demonstrated that Rice (or Dash) support policies or politicians that are harmful to black communities. You have just made vague claims about this and almost certainly mean policies that there can be reasonable differences of opinions on, they just don't agree with your opinion.

 

[L.Y.S.]

1. You have not demonstrated in any sense that Rice is or was submissive to white people.

2. You have not demonstrated that Rice (or Dash) support policies or politicians that are harmful to black communities. You have just made vague claims about this and almost certainly mean policies that there can be reasonable differences of opinions on, they just don't agree with your opinion.

1. That was never my claim. It was a very specific claim about her conduct during the Bush administration. It is well documented that she was a door mat.

2. I'm just not going to get into it. I'm just not going to derail the thread anymore man. Sorry bro. I hope you have a good day.

L.Y.S.

 

[SezMe]

But I think G.Bush (Jeb's son) rather than Jeb.

I agree with AlBell that "P" might have a go at it.

On the other side, I think Tester is a viable prospect.

 

[hgc]

Do you see anything wrong with people calling Stacey Dash an uncle Tom house *****, Oreo, house slave and urging her to kill herself, link, or is that not racism because she supported Romney?

Yes, I see something wrong with all that. But that's not what L.Y.S. did. He reported to us that that's the kind of thing that people are also saying about C. Rice.

 

[hgc]

I would say that the choice of words was poor. Such hot-button words may suggest racist attitudes even if they are none. You should be more careful about throwing phrases like "yes massah" and "slave girl" around as they evoke strong emotions.

I hold the inference-taker more responsible for that than the speaker. I vehemently oppose a person reporting on the actual words, or effective attitudes, of third parties having to censor themselves -- in order to shield listeners from offense (except perhaps in special circumstances).

I feel badly that some people here were genuinely offended, but I am glad to have the information... assuming I can trust the source. This is an anonymous forum after all.

I hadn't heard Cornell West saying anything like that, for instance, in any of the occasions I've seen him on TV. Personally, I don't hold him in high esteem, as he often says very silly things, for someone who is so intellectually accomplished.

 

[respect]

1. That was never my claim. It was a very specific claim about her conduct during the Bush administration. It is well documented that she was a door mat.

2. I'm just not going to get into it. I'm just not going to derail the thread anymore man. Sorry bro. I hope you have a good day.

L.Y.S.

No, it is not well documented that Rice was a doormat. In fact, it has been claimed by more than a few people who observed the inner workings of the Bush Administration that Rice had more sway and influence with W than any other member, including Cheney. But I don't blame you for not wanting to support your claims, you can't.

 

[respect]

Yes, I see something wrong with all that. But that's not what L.Y.S. did. He reported to us that that's the kind of thing that people are also saying about C. Rice.

No, he started with the name calling, then said that Rice had little support in black communities, then defended the name calling on the highly dubious grounds that all the other black people are doing it too.

Regardless, my initial point was that conservatives are not wrong that conservative minorities are constantly called racist names and this was an example of it. It would be nice if a black person could serve in a Republican Administration or endorse one for president without this nonsense constantly.

 

[L.Y.S.]

*double facepalm*

 

[L.Y.S.]

Any who, if republicans wanted to run a minority their best hope would be Nikki Haley. But even then it would be doubtful that she would resonate with brown voters. I think the best republican strategy is to nominate a woman. That would be enough to split the vote down the middle of women voters which would be significant. But anyone know of Kelly Ayotte? I don't really know of her positions. But she's listed on wikipedia's 2016 republican presidential canidate list.

 

[StankApe]

I want this guy.

[qimg]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Boris_Johnson_-opening_bell_at_NASDAQ-14Sept2009-3c_cropped.jpg/220px-Boris_Johnson_-opening_bell_at_NASDAQ-14Sept2009-3c_cropped.jpg[/qimg]

I love Boris Johnson, he's EXACTLY what a Mayor is supposed to look like/act like!

I'm a huge Top Gear fan and his appearances are great (as was his public humiliations in promoting the Olympics!)

 

[respect]

Any who, if republicans wanted to run a minority their best hope would be Nikki Haley. But even then it would be doubtful that she would resonate with brown voters. I think the best republican strategy is to nominate a woman. That would be enough to split the vote down the middle of women voters which would be significant. But anyone know of Kelly Ayotte? I don't really know of her positions. But she's listed on wikipedia's 2016 presidential canidate list.

It is very clear that the GOP needs to do a better job with minorities and women. Nicki Haley is one of many, Susana Martinez and Marco Rubio are some others that they will look to to help them do that. Mia Love lost a her House seat bid but I wouldn't be surprised to see her back in the future. And if they are smart, they will develop some more minority and female candidates.

Nothing about the party platform is actually racist, but they need to do a substantially better job self-policing the racists in their midst and then making clear that things like fiscal responsibility are not white people issues. They also need to shove aside the old guard and promote their up and comers so they can make a credible argument about fiscal responsibility and other popular aspects of their platform that have been ignored by the old guard when in power.

 

[L.Y.S.]

I hadn't heard Cornell West saying anything like that, for instance, in any of the occasions I've seen him on TV. Personally, I don't hold him in high esteem, as he often says very silly things, for someone who is so intellectually accomplished.

He hadn't said that, he was much more respectful. The word I used for his view of her was 'suspect'. He holds Condi 'suspect'. He is suspicious of her intent and her conduct. Then again he holds Obama to the same standards. He is a great example of someone who disagrees with my position, yet I still have tremendous respect for him, because he conducts himself in ways which enhance his community. Condi did not. To nail the point, I'll show a vid of Cornell West and Toni Morrison that proves the exact points I have been saying several times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tv4QwIKNNk

Watch from 8:40 – 10:30. Says everything I said. Morrison didn't use the same language as I, but it is clear that she doesn't feel fondly of condi. West agrees and is cautious about commenting, though it is clear he held some opinions of her prior to making his statement.

 

[L.Y.S.]

It is very clear that the GOP needs to do a better job with minorities and women. Nicki Haley is one of many, Susana Martinez and Marco Rubio are some others that they will look to to help them do that. Mia Love lost a her House seat bid but I wouldn't be surprised to see her back in the future. And if they are smart, they will develop some more minority and female candidates.

Nothing about the party platform is actually racist, but they need to do a substantially better job self-policing the racists in their midst and then making clear that things like fiscal responsibility are not white people issues. They also need to shove aside the old guard and promote their up and comers so they can make a credible argument about fiscal responsibility and other popular aspects of their platform that have been ignored by the old guard when in power.

Agreed, they need to distance themselves from the extreme elements of their party and relate more to minority voters. That is something I have been saying for awhile. They also need to rid of the southern strategy which worked up until this election. It's not impossible because the Democrats are living proof that a party can change into something good if they want to. I hope the Republicans can learn a thing or two from the democrats and transform into something which promotes human rights instead of devaluing them.

 

[StankApe]

I just noticed that Hillary was looking a little old and saw she will be 69 in 2016, maybe pushing it a bit there too.

 

[Tricky]

How can it be deduced that I am racist if I am of the said race and I am not making any general statement toward the rest of my race? It would be one thing if I said all black women who are members of the Republican Party are slave girls and go yes suh. But I never said that, my statement was about one extremely specific person and their character.

But don't you see, that still smacks of racist overtones. If somebody said, "I didn't call all blacks "n-words", I only called that ONE black an "n-word". Sorry, but I'd still call him a racist. You can't use language like that without the strong possibility that people are going to interpret it as racist. That's why, even while agree with your sentiments, L.Y.S, I think you should watch how you phrase things. It will affect how you are perceived.